HELM (Management) Courses, anyone been on one yet?

[Dosedmonkey]

Has anyone been on one of these Human Element and Leadership Managment courses now compulsery when getting your Senior ticket? I am booked for end of October to go on one, and have heard its just a Deck Officer giving you death by power point.

Although the Tyneside website does say there is Simulator time involved.

Possibly someone has been to the one in Warsash?

Cheers,

[Martyboy]

I haven't been on it, I was lucky enough to apply for my CoC in August and it wasn't compulsory until 1st Sept, although i've heard you need to do case studies of your leadership and management style and for deckies we play on the bridge and engineers play on the engine sim, and they put you in "whorey" situations and watch how you react, then you get to watch the playback of it and see your strengths and weakness's The Sim school at STC is really good, it's behind a locked door so as to hide from the rest of the college :P

[alistairuk]

I was same as Marty... Got mine in before it became mandatory. Do let us know what was involved when you come round to doing yours.

[Clanky]

I think the idea of management / leadership training for mates and second engineers is excellent, I hope the implementation is somewhat better than you have been lead to believe.

As Alistair said, it would be good to hear from people who have been on the course.

How long is it? Just a one day thing or more. Is there a second course for masters / chiefs?

[alistairuk]

I think the idea of management / leadership training for mates and second engineers is excellent, I hope the implementation is somewhat better than you have been lead to believe.

As Alistair said, it would be good to hear from people who have been on the course.

How long is it? Just a one day thing or more. Is there a second course for masters / chiefs?

There is HELM(O) which you complete before your first CoC and then there is HELM(M) which you need to hold before they will issue a new Chief Mate / Masters / Engineering Equivilent certification.

Marty and I will need to complete it before we can be issued a Masters CoC unless it changes again.

[Dosedmonkey]

It is a five day course;

STC ?550
Warsash ?675


I have been in to the STC simulator suite for a look yesterday, it is very very impressive. I don't know if they have upgraded the Warsash one, as six years ago was the last time I was there, a long time ago as far as computer technology, the control room was good, but the engine room section of it was terrible compared to what STC now has.

[chris]

Yes the engine room sim and kongsberg version of imacs is pretty impressive at stc. Theyve got lots of video cameras set up in the sim to review management styles etc.

[HarmlessWeasel]

I think we were told that the Engine Room simulator at Warsash was updated in the last year at a cost of ?x million pounds

[Dosedmonkey]

September 2012 Warsash opened their new Engine Room simulator, looks similar to STC's and those used on the continent.

[thebrookster]

I used the Engine Room Sim in November 2012, looked to have the potential to be quite a nice piece of kit. Still had a few bugs to be ironed out however, certain machinery "faults" could not be fixed whatever we did as engineers, which generally caused an impromptu coffee break whilst the sys admins reset the scenario

The only other downside to the Warsash setup is they cannot tie the two sims together, which would make for a much more interesting course. Maybe not overly much use to "public" courses, but my company have arrangements with Warsash for the MCRM/ERM/BTM courses (which they lump together) and being able to work as a ship is more applicable to us.

Which leads me to my question, is the MCRM course (with ERM) what you guys are referring to as HELM?? If so, with a decent company/instructor they are worth doing!!

[Martyboy]

I used the Engine Room Sim in November 2012, looked to have the potential to be quite a nice piece of kit. Still had a few bugs to be ironed out however, certain machinery "faults" could not be fixed whatever we did as engineers, which generally caused an impromptu coffee break whilst the sys admins reset the scenario

The only other downside to the Warsash setup is they cannot tie the two sims together, which would make for a much more interesting course. Maybe not overly much use to "public" courses, but my company have arrangements with Warsash for the MCRM/ERM/BTM courses (which they lump together) and being able to work as a ship is more applicable to us.

Which leads me to my question, is the MCRM course (with ERM) what you guys are referring to as HELM?? If so, with a decent company/instructor they are worth doing!!

I think so, it was the old bridge resource management thing for deckies, but the Manila amendments brought this HELM in, I read it was from the airline side of things, they found pilots benefited from the training so went with it.

[Dosedmonkey]

I used the Engine Room Sim in November 2012, looked to have the potential to be quite a nice piece of kit. Still had a few bugs to be ironed out however, certain machinery "faults" could not be fixed whatever we did as engineers, which generally caused an impromptu coffee break whilst the sys admins reset the scenario

The only other downside to the Warsash setup is they cannot tie the two sims together, which would make for a much more interesting course. Maybe not overly much use to "public" courses, but my company have arrangements with Warsash for the MCRM/ERM/BTM courses (which they lump together) and being able to work as a ship is more applicable to us.

Which leads me to my question, is the MCRM course (with ERM) what you guys are referring to as HELM?? If so, with a decent company/instructor they are worth doing!!

As stated in MCA MIN 455, new compulsory course.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/min_455.pdf

Most peoples reaction including lecturers seems to be, "Well we never needed this before, as this is the whole point of sea time, its a bit late by the time you go for senoir exams". Which is fair enough, I mean how much can you educate someone in five days, a lot of communication problems is down to peoples personalities created over the 30-50 years they've lived! For good and bad!

I will let everyone know in November after I have completed the course.

[thebrookster]

OK, it would appear it is probably essentially the same course, just under a different name. Mine is MCA ratified, I know that much.

I found the course quite interesting, which came as a bit of a shock to be perfectly honest. It was not so much dealing with people under normal circumstances, but more of a case of looking at how people reacted in stressful scenarios when everything goes tits up, and how to deal with people when they react badly and keep things progressing. A recent example was the Costa Concordia, where **** hit the fan and many of the officers simply did not follow training. It is very easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise, yet the captains many years of personality building did not help him take a firm grasp of the situation and deal with ti correctly!! And it is all down to human nature, and having some concept on how to deal with fellow officers reacting badly can only be a good thing, in my opinion.

I am not saying there is not crap in there as well, always will be in any kind of human resource management course. But plenty of good stuffs as well.

Cheers,

Phil

[Dosedmonkey]

A leadership course isn't going to make you a fight or flight person, thats something ingrained in to your personality through situations and parenting and other peoples leadership through out your life.

Costa Concordia fell apart, because the head of the command structure fell apart. Not sure if a five day course is going to change that.

On the other hand, the company has paid for me to do this now, which is good, and if it is a lot of simulator work I will enjoy it a lot. A little bit ashame I can't do it with my usual crew from the ship, like other companies do. But should be interesting all the same.

I can't see myself acting the same in the presence of new people in a simulator, to crew I have been sailing with for anywhere between a month or years before disaster.