For All Aspiring Cadets: The Big Con

[The Kraken]

This is a warning to all the aspiring cadets: The jobs are not there for junior officers. You were lied to in the prospectuses, recruitment drives and lectures.

Let me explain - Look at any of the tailored job sites, one lists 11 jobs for junior officers. Doesn't seem too bad, however dig a little deeper and see most require previous experience, even 2/O jobs are looking for chief mates tickets (OOWs are qualified to sail in this rank). One particular advert to just build up a list of OOWs for possible future vacancies has had over 400 applications. Some of the bigger recruitment sites (including an arm of one who trains cadets) doesn't have any junior officer positions at all.

Believe me you can scroll through the web, phone up agencies and companies, and get in touch with old contacts but it mostly leads to naught. Now before some members of this forum criticise this post as being pessimistic or quoting me some figure of 'the majority of people find work in a certain amount of time' this comes from mine and my fellow cadets experiences of qualifying in the last two years. This is a vastly different situation than cadets coming out of the system five or more years ago. And yes, all of my fellow cadets are struggling as well.

My own personal experience is after getting very lucky after 8 months looking I got one temporary trip under my belt, I am in the same situation now as when I first qualified, getting nowhere. The experience of sailing in rank doesn't seem to be paying off at all all. This is a totally different set of circumstances to when we were told in college that there 'is a great lack of officers' and 'companies are always looking to recruit British officers due to our high levels of training' etc. I have told myself to give it a few more months of hard graft looking and then I am leaving the industry as I need to be in work to be earning, 3 years of training for nothing.

This may sound like a rant but it is in-fact a call to arms for all those looking at starting a career in the merchant navy, don't believe what they tell you and fall into the trap. If you sign with a company that offer you employment at the end, happy days. However if the company doesn't consider a career elsewhere or you may find yourself languishing in unemployment limbo.

[ETwhat?]

I agree that with people struggling to find work it is necessary that some changes are looked at. However the only good way of doing that is to make sure jobs are offered by the companies after the training, the idea of forcing them to employ you for 6months or a year after to get that 'first trip' wont really help as it would be the same instead of getting dumped out after the cadet ship it would be done a year later.
I imagine that the increase of popularity in cadetships over the last few years coupled with a slow down in the north sea/offshore areas leading to some newly qualified people being laid off

[endure]

If they're forced to employ you for 6 months or a year after you finish your cadetship at least you'll have some sea time in your discharge book.

[gadget123]

Completly agree.

One other thing that people keep saying on these fourms is the "if you work hard and impress the officers on board they will help you get a job when you qualify" line, If simply doesnt work like that in the majourity of cases.
The Captain/Chief can think you are the best cadet in the world but if the company has a policy against employing british officers you won't get a job.

[ETwhat?]

If they're forced to employ you for 6 months or a year after you finish your cadetship at least you'll have some sea time in your discharge book.

but going on Kraken's opinion and experience that even having that first stamp doesn't greatly help the job prospects and if it was done badly it would actually hurt the industry, as poor companies would make sure that they have a constant supply of cheap new officers every 6 months and make getting long term employment harder.

Ultimately if companies aren't willing to employ the officers they shouldn't train them

[asmith91]

Ultimately if companies aren't willing to employ the officers they shouldn't train them

^^this.

Some companies are taking the mickey by taking British cadets but not employing British officers (unless they have the odd captain here and there). CMA-CGM, OOCL, NYK... OTOH cadets don't get the worst deal on earth. They get paid to get an HND without incurring any tuition fees, and get a ton of life experience into the bargain. It's not just the companies, the colleges are also guilty of sugar-coating the whole 'life at sea' thing.

[condeh]

Sorry you are having this experience, and, for what it is worth, I believe you.

I used to think an employment link for companies training cadets was the answer, but I came to realise as someone has mentioned above, that will pull the very small number of OOW jobs out of the market completely.

I consider myself to be very lucky, I love my job, and I get to enjoy it every day, and for the record, my company has employed OOW without experience. Not withstanding that, I do not recommend this career at all, to anyone who has asked me, and that is extremely sad.

I have said for ages, there is no skill shortage. There is a cheap skills shortage.

[Clanky]

I spent some time a while back trying to find jobs for newly qualified OOW's with absolutely zero success, however, all of those who were in contact with me have now found something through their own efforts.

Times are incredibly tough for the entire shipping industry at the moment (with the possible exceptions of the cruise and yachting sector) and it is horrifying to hear of almost entire classes of cadets still without a job 6 months later.

For me one of the possible solutions is that companies should only be allowed to train a certain number of cadets (and claim the associated tax benefits) and that should be in proportion to the number of UK junior officers which they employ.

For those of you who are looking at applying for cadetships try your hardest to find a sponsor who regularly employs their own cadets after training.

[Maso210]

I can reiterate the views above. I have 9 months post qualification sea time and have still found work difficult to come by. I was only just this week offered something after looking for over 3 months. I find it laughable when the Nautilus Telegraph claims the industry is 40,000 officers short. Like condeh says, a shortage of cheap skills.

[The Kraken]

I spent some time a while back trying to find jobs for newly qualified OOW's with absolutely zero success, however, all of those who were in contact with me have now found something through their own efforts.

Times are incredibly tough for the entire shipping industry at the moment (with the possible exceptions of the cruise and yachting sector) and it is horrifying to hear of almost entire classes of cadets still without a job 6 months later.

For me one of the possible solutions is that companies should only be allowed to train a certain number of cadets (and claim the associated tax benefits) and that should be in proportion to the number of UK junior officers which they employ.

For those of you who are looking at applying for cadetships try your hardest to find a sponsor who regularly employs their own cadets after training.

Clanky, I would say that even the cruise and yacht companies are part of this. Have a look at the cruise jobs going on Viking's website: http://www.vikingrecruitment.com/job...h/cruise/deck/. Captain, Chief Officer and Cadet, thats it! Have a look at other cruise job websites and there are zero jobs for junior officers. I have researched/emailed/spoke to all the cruise lines under the sun to no avail. I was actually told by HR at Holland America Line that they only recruit junior officers from their cadet base, and if I wanted to join I could try applying as a 2nd officer but I would have to have a Chief Mates ticket first

[Clanky]

Yeah, I meant that the industry was struggling apart from cruise and yacht sectors.

The cruise companies at least, generally speaking, employ their cadets at the end of their training.

[Dad]

So many seem to think that just getting on the course means you have a right to a job.

The fact you have Sponsorship doesn't guarantee you a job, it is only the start of a three/four year long interview.

You are competing with every other cadet out there for a small pool of jobs and you have to stand out from the crowd for the right reasons.

Put yourselves in the employers shoes, who would you employ or recommend? The cadet who you know, who has had good reports and who has been in regular contact with you over the last three years? Or the cadet who has just plodded along quietly just doing enough but who you've never heard about?


It's always been a tough, competitive world out there no matter what industry you are in.

[bobofinga]

The complete collapse of the North Sea has been a large factor.

Guys with OOW, Chief mates tickets and a few years experience now applying for the junior roles that fresh OOW should be going for.

I have a friend who was a Chief Officer in the north sea is now sailing as a temp 3rd mate on ferries.

[Clanky]

So many seem to think that just getting on the course means you have a right to a job.

The fact you have Sponsorship doesn't guarantee you a job, it is only the start of a three/four year long interview.

You are competing with every other cadet out there for a small pool of jobs and you have to stand out from the crowd for the right reasons.

Put yourselves in the employers shoes, who would you employ or recommend? The cadet who you know, who has had good reports and who has been in regular contact with you over the last three years? Or the cadet who has just plodded along quietly just doing enough but who you've never heard about?


It's always been a tough, competitive world out there no matter what industry you are in.

While all of this is true, many cadets have worked hard throughout a cadetship and committed 3 or 4 years of their lives to this career after being led to believe by shipping companies, training agents, Nautilus and other similarly dodgy shysters that there were jobs to be had at the end of this time. In many cases they have been placed by agencies on ships were training has been inadequate and although they have qualified at the end of their cadetship they find that the qualification is useless to them.

If it were just down to only the best cadets getting jobs at the end then i would agree with you, but some of the plodders that you describe were lucky enough to be placed with companies who have a policy of employing their cadets at the end of their training while some of those who have worked hard and done really well simply can't find work.

[jcwilson91]

This is why i am constantly looking for another avenue to work on, even though i have a permanent contract. I have met the required criteria to be promoted to 3rd engineer for a while now, the office say they don't need thirds but then the next day they called a Latvian friend of mine claiming they desperately needed him as they have a shortage of third engineers.

I'm looking at doing Programming and Networking courses, or maybe a renewable engineering degree through the open university. Future-proofing myself.

I did see that Northern Marine were advertising for assistant superintendents recently, maybe i'll give that a go!