Worst ship type and company to do cadet ship with?

[Randomist]

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Sorry Alistair but I think you can see why I wanted my post to be anonymous.

I think you could be on the best ship in the world but if you have a crap crew then the type of ship doesn't really matter. I've sailed on 2 standby vessels first one chief eng was great as well as the the third, learned loads of them, the second vessel the chief wasn't interested so it was a waste of time. from a cadets point of view I would definitely say its down to the crew and not the vessel.

I agree with you it does come down to the crew. But the quality of the crew is dependant on the company hiring them. The better companies will get the better crew and the worst ones will get whoever is left over. Also some companies obviously turn a blind eye to what their crews get up to, which is clearly not ok.

[alistairuk]

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[mikcle60]

I think you could be on the best ship in the world but if you have a crap crew then the type of ship doesn't really matter. I've sailed on 2 standby vessels first one chief eng was great as well as the the third, learned loads of them, the second vessel the chief wasn't interested so it was a waste of time. from a cadets point of view I would definitely say its down to the crew and not the vessel.

Strange how my reply to this thread didn't appear. Looks like you can only reply anonymously if the owners of this website agrees with your views.

[chris]

Couldn't agree more with this last bit, there are far too many junior officers kicking around at the minute who know that the main engine cooling water temp is controlled by the little digital display on the control room console, but would struggle to find the valve, let alone know what is happening in the system when the temperature varies away from the set point

well that would take a few minutes for an eto cadet to find

the mcs supplied by sam electronics utilises a pid controller and continuous valve for the temp control of this cooling system

So you think the whole industry is like that huh? Having been the only Brit on some ships the whole load of ****e you came out with is simply that, ****e. Simply because the crew you are working with are British does not mean they will follow the law, rules or regulations any better than someone from the Philipines, Eastern Europe, Americas or Mars and it also doesn't mean that they will teach you any better.

So instead of sitting there giving us generalities, why not give us some specifics? What rules were broken? What company was the vessel managed by? What did YOU do about it (other than come on here and tar a large part of the industry based on three ships)?

There are 2 issues.

I did not intend to say that foreign crews act illegally because they are foreign. But it does cause serious language problems. Yes they may be required to speak english but it doesn't mean that they will speak english for the benefit of a cadet, which can make actually learning anything particularly difficult. Yes i did manage to learn basics in one of the languages used on board, but I did not manage to learn enough to understand discussions on navigation issues or briefings prior to berthing. Is that my fault maybe? But again thats part of the reason I said that they are the worst ship types to work on.

But regardless of nationalities of the crew on board it does seem that disregard for regulations is pretty widespread on these ships. Not just in my experience but from speaking to other cadets who have also sailed on deep sea container ships.

As for rules/good practice I saw broken:
MARPOL - I asked the chief mate if we were meant to be throwing garbage over the side the response was "Don't give me this MARPOL bulls****" this happened pretty regularly.

COSWOP - No permit to work system in use, some pretty dodgy work going on on deck, I lost track of the number of times I had to say "I'm not doing that its not safe" which never really went down well, but better that than doing it to fit in and getting hurt.

Seriously bad practices on the bridge - officers thought that using the radar for position fixing was a waste of time so used GPS every where, one officer actualy went to the point of telling me off for using the radar. Also pretty awful for learning Colregs, when you are told that fishing boats have to give way to ships everyday for 4 months you actually start to believe it.

Complete lack of drills - Across my 10 months seatime on container ships we did 4 drills. All of which were a joke, no real scenario or plan just get dressed up fire some hoses around for a bit, then pose for some photos to show the company. Aswell as being unsafe it makes it very hard to write reports and get things signed of. Same situation with things like LSA checks/maintenance. It was generally signed off but not done.

I'm not going to say what company as I don't want to get fired. Similarly I could have given a few more details above but I'm worried about my anonymity.

What did i do about it? I raised it with my training officer ashore and i was basicly told that these things happen and to get on with it. I know I should have raised it with the DPA but as I had been told by my training officer that I had to stay on the ship, and I was the only person on board who seemed concerned by these things it would have made it even harder for me to get on with the crew.

[alistairuk]

The industry has changed from all the glossy advertisements and the old days... basically unless you end up on some very old general cargo ship (and there's still a few about) you're not going to get any longer than a few hours in a port - during which time you will be most likely working!

Most industrial ports are located away from towns / cities (with the odd exception) - let's face it who wants to live next to a massive container port / LNG terminal / cement factory - making it near impossible to go out for a walk (without the assistance of a long taxi ride) - and of course that is assuming your company is willing to pay for the ship to clear immigration and you to be issued visa's to leave the port!

As a cadet the only officers I sailed with who were british were the captains... all the other deck / engineering officers where from various locations in eastern europe or the Philippines / india.. and with the odd exception they were all excellent - yes they do not know our training system (since the UKs is pretty much unique) but they were always willing to help and showed an interest if you put in the effort. So I don't accept that just because you are with non british officers life is **** (but that's my opinion and you're more than entitled to your own).

Safety is a lot to do with the company - not the nationalities of the persons onboard - if a company has proper / actually relevant procedures in place most people will follow them.

To say Standby boats are better? Yes lot's of people love them - they have their advantages; the DP ones are well paid, short trips (usually 2/3 weeks on/off), small crews, close to land - but in all honesty their my idea of hell - I'd rather be sailing somewhere than sitting in the North Sea in winter (or off the Brazilian coast or worse sitting in the Gulf of Suez!)

Cruise ships (since most of you know is where I work); Again, I like them - and have no intention of ever going to cargo ships - but their not for everyone; they have the advantages that you tend to get a lot of time in port, you are normally always allowed off in port by the authorities, because passengers also don't want to see LNG terminals or cement factories, the ports we visit tend to be in the towns / cities.

So to sum up! Whats the best ship type? It all depends on you!

[GuinnessMan]

Well he asked the worst type of ship, and I gave my opinion.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I've been on 3 container ships with 2 different companies and they have all been like that.

So you think the whole industry is like that huh? Having been the only Brit on some ships the whole load of ****e you came out with is simply that, ****e. Simply because the crew you are working with are British does not mean they will follow the law, rules or regulations any better than someone from the Philipines, Eastern Europe, Americas or Mars and it also doesn't mean that they will teach you any better.

So instead of sitting there giving us generalities, why not give us some specifics? What rules were broken? What company was the vessel managed by? What did YOU do about it (other than come on here and tar a large part of the industry based on three ships)?

Nice big brush to paint everyone with there and doing it anon well....

Anywho, very few deep sea vessels are as this "genius" describes. If it's deep sea you want, then do your best to get it. You may not be able to get off at every port but you'll still be able to do so at some.

.

Well he asked the worst type of ship, and I gave my opinion.

Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I've been on 3 container ships with 2 different companies and they have all been like that.

[dannyboy]

That depends on the age of the vessel. I personally think Engineering cadets should start on slightly older vessels, as in ones with a little less automation, so that you do learn your systems as nearly everything was handamatic.

It did show when I went back to college that 80% of my class didn't know how to parallel generators manually as all they had done was push a button and it did it automatically...

Well the vessel i went on was the oldest in the fleet being built 1967 and i still enjoyed it

[Clanky]

That depends on the age of the vessel. I personally think Engineering cadets should start on slightly older vessels, as in ones with a little less automation, so that you do learn your systems as nearly everything was handamatic.

It did show when I went back to college that 80% of my class didn't know how to parallel generators manually as all they had done was push a button and it did it automatically...

Couldn't agree more with this last bit, there are far too many junior officers kicking around at the minute who know that the main engine cooling water temp is controlled by the little digital display on the control room console, but would struggle to find the valve, let alone know what is happening in the system when the temperature varies away from the set point.

In a perfect world, all engine cadets would complete their first trip on an old (1960's) ship with a big slow speed engine and progress to a brand spanking new ship with diesel electric propulsion, but like I said above, if you take what you are given and make the most of it then you will still come away with the basic grounding that will allow you to go anywhere and pick things up pretty quickly.

I have sailed with cadets who came from North Sea standby vessels to large cargo ships with slow speed diesels and did well. Wherever you end up, ask lots of questions, put the effort in and try emulate the best of the officers around you, and you will do fine.

[GuinnessMan]

Are you having a laugh?

North star or putford sounds amazing. They tend to have British crew, go to ports where you are allowed of the ship, have short trips, and attempt to do things legally.

Anyone who slags off north sea companies needs to spend a few months on a container ship where you are the only person who speaks English on board, your not allowed shore leave in most ports, and you blatantly break every regulation possible.

Nice big brush to paint everyone with there and doing it anon well....

Anywho, very few deep sea vessels are as this "genius" describes. If it's deep sea you want, then do your best to get it. You may not be able to get off at every port but you'll still be able to do so at some.

Iv just got back from an observation trip with boston putford and i personally thought it was good place to work, well from a engine cadet point of view

That depends on the age of the vessel. I personally think Engineering cadets should start on slightly older vessels, as in ones with a little less automation, so that you do learn your systems as nearly everything was handamatic.

It did show when I went back to college that 80% of my class didn't know how to parallel generators manually as all they had done was push a button and it did it automatically...

[dannyboy]

Iv just got back from an observation trip with boston putford and i personally thought it was good place to work, well from a engine cadet point of view

[Clanky]

I think the answer to the OP is that the worst type would vary from person to person, some people could go to standby ships and have a great time / gain lots of good experience while they might have a miserable time on a box boat and for others it could be the other way round. Some people might love a passenger ship cadetship, others might hate it and wish they had chosen tankers.

Really the cadetship is very much what you make of it, unless you are very unlucky then you will get out of it what you put in in terms of effort and application no matter what ship type you are on.