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Really Scared about Final Exams and Collision Avoidance

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  • Really Scared about Final Exams and Collision Avoidance

    Hi Guys,

    I have my oral exams soon and I am starting to really worry about COLREGS and how to apply them. I overheard some of my classmates talking about the following situation and I cant work out the answer. I have been up for hours reading all the rules and still cant figure it out.........

    I am a vessel restricted in ability to manoeuvre towing a fishing vessel that I have just rescued which is still engaged in trawling and not under command. I am also navigating within restricted limits so have the option to define myself as constrained by draught.

    Another vessel is crossing my bow from the port side with CPA 0. This vessel is also restricted in ability to manoeuvre since it is dredging. From my position I can see two red lights displayed in addition to the ther indicating the side on which it is not safe to pass. I also have a vessel not under command overtaking me on the port side.

    I have tried to work out the answer but I cant. Im sure I have to keep out the the way of the vessel overtaking me since its not under command but cannot turn to port for the vessel in front.

    I asked what it says in the masters orders but he hasnt given any description of what to do in this situation.

    I really hope they dont ask me this question in my orals because Im going to fail if they do.

    Cheers guys,

    Amanda.

  • #2
    Surely its a trick question.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmmm, that's a difficult one.

      I can't see anything in the rules about RAM being "less important" than NUC. In fact, my reading of the situation is that everyone has to keep out ot the way of everyone, in which case the safest bet might be the college favourite (apparently not popular with MCA) of a full 360 turn to starboard if searoom permits.

      I am, most likely, wrong though!
      sigpic
      Hello! I'm Chris. I'm away a lot so I'm sorry if it takes me a while to reply to messages, but I promise I'll get back to everyone. If it's urgent, please email me directly at [email protected].

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      Comment


      • #4
        The OP or her classmates are taking the piss.

        This is not the standard of question to expect at a an MCA OOW orals examination. It is too convoluted even for realistic Master's level.

        It is a deliberate no-win scenario. Rule 2(b) applies. Do whatever you have to do to avoid immediate danger or minimise the effects of the inevitable collision/grounding.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CharlieDelta View Post
          I can't see anything in the rules about RAM being "less important" than NUC.
          It is implied in the definitions. RAM is "restricted", NUC is "unable". NUC is top of the hierarchy as it, by definition, has no options.

          In fact, my reading of the situation is that everyone has to keep out ot the way of everyone, in which case the safest bet might be the college favourite (apparently not popular with MCA) of a full 360 turn to starboard if searoom permits.
          Technically correct, there is no clear give-way in this scenario. The overtaking vessel is required to keep out of the way, but by definition cannot, something of a known contradiction within the rules and a case to apply Rule 2(b). However there is no stated risk of collision with the overtaking NUC.

          I think you've missed the "restricted limits" and CBD bit, making a round turn, and probably any bold manoeuvre, implausible. I assume the overtaking vessel is intended to discourage a reduction in speed. Can't turn + can't reduce speed = no options. (Disregarding an increase in speed!)

          A round turn is a bad answer as you may just end up exactly where you started (definite in the absolute sense, possible in the relative), but a bold alteration turning your stern to the problem may go down better with the MCA, depending on the exact question and circumstances.

          Kobayashi Maru.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tip:

            Never forget it! If in doubt....Call the Master!

            The examiner will not object to this statement, unless you are in for a Master oral, if the situation warrants doubt. The example given is one that you would be expected to call the Master in.


            Some of us may display a level of over confidence and arrogance when it comes to calling the Master in some situations... If so... I am sure the examiner will put you in your place. Oh and send you away with a invite to return..

            Comment


            • #7
              You will not get asked anything like that in OOW, or mates or masters in my experience. I know it's easy to get panicked about the orals, but don't waste time worrying about convoluted situations, when it comes to ROR questions be confident, have a standard answer structure, think about your answer first, always come across as cautious and never be afraid to throw in 'call the master' as soon as any other vessel starts doing something strange!
              Cruise ship Captain with experience on-board Passenger Vessels ranging from 5500-150000 GRT.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes I'm still confused. From what I understand:

                The vessel overtaking me on the port side is obliged to keep out of my way beacuse rule 13 states:

                "any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken."

                So this means the NUC ovrtaking vessel must keep out of my way.

                But what I'm really confused about is who is obliged to give way to who and especially since the dredger has two red lights meaning I cannot approach it on that side.

                Thanks for all your help so far guys!

                Amanda.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There's also not enough in the scene to work out a plausible response. the overtaking vessel will look after itself ti some degree. but the crossing vessel with a cpa of zero doesn't tell you what options you have to. as you have no idea how much time you have. it does seem to be someone trying to find a really complex test that as people say is well beyond the level needed. personally though i would drop the tow as a first option
                  you can take it with a pinch of salt, but i prefer it with a nip of whisky

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As the OOW in this situation there is only one thing you should be doing - CALL THE MASTER!! He should be on the bridge anyway in restricted waters. If you're towing a fishing vessel it won't be trawling, the Captain of your vessel would certainly have made sure they brought their nets in, or cut them if unable to haul them. It doesn't count as NUC as it is being towed so should only have it's side and stern lights on.

                    If unsure about another vessels intentions - 5 short and rapid blasts (supplemented by the signalling light). Then...

                    You could sound one short blast and go to stbd and parallel the crossing vessels course, as there is nothing on your stbd side, you could also sound three short blasts and slow down to allow more time to assess the situation and let the other vessel pass ahead, the NUC passing you on your port side does not present a risk of collision, . You say you have the "option" to use CBD lights, this doesn't really wash with me, either you are too big to manouvre out of the channel limits, or you're not. As the OOW you should be well aware of your draught in relation to the available depth of water and be able to make a quick chart assessment to see if you can go out of the channel limits.

                    As Steve says, 2b applies, it's still partly your fault if you crash, even if you stuck to the rules religiously!!

                    This will NEVER come up in an Orals, so don't worry, concentrate on single vessel situations, lights, shapes, buoyage, sound and light signals etc, how to launch boats and rafts, initial actions in an emergency (ALWAYS call the master!) and the basics. They're not going to try and catch you out, they just want to know that you can do the basics safely and are not afraid to admit you're out of your depth and CALL THE MASTER!!

                    Size4riggerboots

                    Moderator
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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This question is just nonsense wth somebody trying to find the most complicated and impossible scenario imaginable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Firstly, if you are genuine, then whoever gave you this question is taking the piss - it is far beyond OOW level and your answer should simply be ?Call the master?.

                        Parts of it also do not make any sense, but to sum up the best course of action; STOP your vessel and let them all pass you by.
                        ?Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn?t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.?

                        ? Mark Twain
                        myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Jesus christ, that looks like something Starfleet would give to Kirk whilst he was in the Kobayishi Maru, just to finally spite the bugger.
                          "Crazy like wild wolves threatened by fire, send them all to the bottom of the sea."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            That was exactly what I said: STOP!

                            But then somebody pointed out as since the fishing vessel is Not Under Command it would crash into the back of you since you are towing it.

                            I have come to the conclusion that its impossible I think.

                            Amanda

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Amanda View Post
                              That was exactly what I said: STOP!

                              But then somebody pointed out as since the fishing vessel is Not Under Command it would crash into the back of you since you are towing it.

                              I have come to the conclusion that its impossible I think.

                              Amanda
                              The Fishing Vessel is a vessel being towed - it is not "NUC".

                              Also, it is highly (although there are conceivably possibilities where it may occur) unlikely that a vessel NUC would be overtaking you, since that's a bit of a contradiction... if its able to overtake you then it can clearly manoeuvre - and is therefore NOT NUC. (Unless for some reason it has lost control of its engines and rudder - in which case you would have expected the captain to walk on the bridge and hit Emergency Stop / Any of the engineers to have cut the fuel supply .:. it wouldn't be over taking you).

                              In the highly unlikely event this question is ever asked, the sole answer they would expect from you is "Call the master" - if you say anything else you will most likely fail.
                              ?Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn?t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.?

                              ? Mark Twain
                              myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

                              Comment

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