Feel completley mislead

[misled]

I am a just about to finish my first phase to go to sea at end of the month. I am with a well known recruiter of cadets. My sponsoring company is a ferry company. I requested all deep sea companys but before starting last summer I was sent to an interview with them. At this interview we were told we would do 6 weeks on a ferry the the rest of phase deep sea on a tanker. Today we were told (well we actually found out for ourselves and questioned or company don't know when they planned on telling us) we will do or entire first phase on a ferry. Reason being they don't have enough berths for cadets. If I had known this i would have turned down my sporing company. I feel absolutely mislead.

Any advice? Is it worth talking to nautilus or is that more trouble than its worth?

Please nobody say the old cliche about doesn't matter where you do your training its all about the COC at the end. Thats not point I had option to go else where and turned it down now its to late.

[EH75]

From what you have said, I am pretty sure I know what company you are with and I know a few other people who are also with said company. If you are with the company I think you are with, I really wouldn't worry about it. The training on the ferries is very good and all the people I know had a great time. You'll get on a tanker next year. To be honest, there are much worse companies you could be with. It is all about the quality of training, which I think is pretty good. You have got the rest of your career to work on tankers. Unfortunate if you feel you have been misled but I think you might change your mind on things once you have been away. I was desperate to do deep sea and I was lucky enough to be sponsored by a deep sea company, however having done my first phase and with the benefit of hindsight, I would'nt have minded being in your situation either. Over the length of your cadetship you will get the best of both worlds.

And yes, I doubt Nautilus would be able to do anything for you in this situation.

[SWonder]

I have a feeling you are with the same company as me....... I too had a meeting with my TRO's today at Glasgow College. it only lasted about 5 minutes though, just a quick catch up to see how we were all getting on.

Now I remember clearly being told numerous times at interview that I would be doing my first sea phase with a certain Ferry company and then my second sea phase would be done through the other company on tankers etc.

Do your company provide a red tie with lots of little S's on it?

I have just started in January as an engineer cadet but was made well aware of the way they operate because of the joint partnership.

Perhaps you are not with the company i am reffering too or you genuinely weren't made aware of the situation although i find that hard to believe/understand.

[GuinnessMan]

Right, please do not take what I'm about to say as me being horrible.

I know what company you're with and I have a fairly good idea as to why they are putting you on ferries first. First trip away is usually make or break for a cadet. A lot go to sea, find out they don't like it and then want to go home, putting you on a ferry helps as you're not far from home and it's not damned expensive/difficult to bring you back if you realise that it's not for you. Also, a ferry is a good place to start for any cadet as it breaks you in to a life at sea with a British crew and you can be sure that you'll have the old "start-up, shutdown" routine down pat by the time your done. To be fair, as sponsors go, yours is one of the better ones with a good chance of a job at the end, so if I was you I wouldn't be complaining about it. A friend of mine was with them when I was a cadet and he went deep sea in his 2nd sea phase, because, to be fair, if you've made it through your first one then you will obviously know if it's for you or not and so sending you deep sea won't be a problem. Stop complaining and look forwards to your sea time!

Also, I'd like to point out from several posts about the forum that Nautilius is not there for you to bitch and moan at everytime something happens that you don't like. They are there to ensure that their members getting treated fairly, paid and trained properly and have a good whack of employment protection. To that end, please don't go hassling them for every little thing, leave them to do things that are probably slightly more important.

[misled]

re

Point is I had the option to go else where. We were told distinctly at interview we would do 6 weeks on a ferry then rest of phase deep sea. If I had known I was doing my first phase on a ferry I would have went to a different sponsoring company.

[Sdot]

I am with the same well known company...last year however I found out I wasn't going on a tanker until 2 days before the end of my first 6 weeks on the ferry, at the time I was gutted. You're lucky that you found out before leaving college for Phase 2. I thought about all my classmates away having fun in exotic places but in hindsight it really was of benefit. I'm so glad my first sea phase was with a British crew and they also seem to have a better understanding of what the TRB actually is!

The companies have so many cadets at the moment that they can't guarantee everyone a berth hence why your first phase is with a ferry company. Quite a few people dropped out during the sea phase as no matter how much you 'enjoy' college, being at sea is completely different and everyone reacts differently to living on ship, no matter how independent you think you are.

If you really want to stick at this career you just have to suck it up and just do what you need to do during your cadetship, it's not meant to be easy and you don't always get what you want. You never know, you might like working on ferries :-) Your second sea phase will come sooner than you think...have fun :-)

[Unregistered]

Not to mention college has gave me navigation project as part of work bassed leasrning. That involves things like celestial na and great circle sailing so cant imagine my roject will be that. How does one plot a days run for a ship that is moving backwards and forward over same route. Or take sights n a ship that only comes out during the day. Get the feeling ill come back knowing everything there is to know about mooring stations and not much else.

[GuinnessMan]

Oh, and just to add, don't moan too loudly. Getting a cadetship now is going to be harder than ever, what with all the changes to fee's and fundings etc so be glad you have a cadetship to begin with...

[alistairuk]

Not to mention college has gave me navigation project as part of work bassed leasrning. That involves things like celestial na and great circle sailing so cant imagine my roject will be that. How does one plot a days run for a ship that is moving backwards and forward over same route. Or take sights n a ship that only comes out during the day. Get the feeling ill come back knowing everything there is to know about mooring stations and not much else.

How do you think your friends on the pax ships cope - we don't do great circles (no point our runs are too short - or we end up having to avoid weather anyway when crossing the Atlantic).... Celestial is generally only possible at sunset / sunrise when most of the time were along side!

If you have to cover it, then do it theoretical - plan your own passage across the pacific and submit that as part of your project.

Sorry to be blunt, but you come across as throwing your toys out the pram cause your not getting what you want. If your with the company I presume you are with, then you will get to do deep sea next phase - you will have to otherwise you get a restricted ticket. You won't be doing much navigation on your first trip anyway - it should all be deck work so at end of the day it doesn't matter wether your plying up and down an inland waterway or crossing the pacific - chipping and painting is still the same.

[Steve]

...Today we were told (well we actually found out for ourselves and questioned or company don't know when they planned on telling us) we will do or entire first phase on a ferry. Reason being they don't have enough berths for cadets. If I had known this i would have turned down my sporing company. I feel absolutely mislead.

Any advice?

The most important lesson that you can take from this is never to believe anything that shoreside management tell you unless you have independent information to verify it.

[gadget123]

To be honest on your first trip you want to be getting lots of experience in cargo work, mooring operations and maintenance THESE ARE THE THINGS THEY CAN'T TEACH YOU IN COLLEGE.

I've never worked on a very but as far as I can see they must be pretty good for this. Your in and out of port several times a day, full unload and load of cargo several times a day so plenty of experience there. On a tanker you might be in port as little as once or twice a month so not as much experience there.

As for maintenance a ferry will have a lot more LSA and fire fighting equipment to check/maintain than a cargo ship. Chipping and painting well thats the same on any ship metal is metal, it rusts. But believe me Chipping and painting is much nicer in the English channel than at some anchorage in south east asia in 35 degree heat.

As for navigation, you can still do sunsights during the day, and great circle stuff just do a theoretical one. But navigating in busy waters, traffic separation schemes etc as you would on a ferry will teach you alot more about navigation than crossing the pacific for three weeks on autopilot never even seeing another vessel.

Anyway I'm sure you'll realise all of this once your on the ship.

And if you want to keep in touch with family its much nicer being in European coastal waters when you can just use your mobile and not spend all your cash on sat phone cards.

[GuinnessMan]

The most important lesson that you can take from this is never to believe anything that shoreside management tell you unless you have independent information to verify it.

I'm sorry, I think thats a load of rubbish. The company in question is normally very good t telling cadets what they will and will not be doing. Everyone else knows whats going on, so I find it hard to believe that they would say something different to him.

[ETwhat?]

As for workbased learning: before you leave the college explain what ship your going on, and the route etc that you are going to be on ask how they would see you doing the work, most things are very flexible to allow for the fact that ships and routes are so very different. if they can then provide you with some clarification you can as has been suggested plan a route that will cover what you need to do but ignore the fact that your not actually doing it. and just think of all those nights tied up in harbour when you can have free run of the bridge.

As for information changing, i think it reflects the nature of the industry. and while it may suck it is something that you just have to get used to. The main thing to is look for the positives and then make the most out of the time on the ship.

I wouldnt agree with guiness man's iea that you should be greatful of what you get given, everyone has expectations and desires so it is with an aim to have those met that you sign up to them. But you can be sure that the company hasnt decided to change this just to spite you.

[GuinnessMan]

I wouldnt agree with guiness man's iea that you should be greatful of what you get given, everyone has expectations and desires so it is with an aim to have those met that you sign up to them. But you can be sure that the company hasnt decided to change this just to spite you.

Fair enough, but every other cadet I've known with that Company did the exact same thing. Ferries first, then deep sea, simply because it gets you used to a life on a ship before they toss you in the deep end on a tanker of some description and all the cadets I've known with them (there's been a fair few) have all been under no illusion as to what they will be doing and with the way things are at present I'd simply be glad that some bugger took me on as a cadet and that at the end of it I could go wherever I wanted with my shiny EOOW. Put it this way, you'll be a veritable mooring and steering expert by the end of your trip...

Also, I still believe that this is not something for Nautilus to be contacted over....

[ETwhat?]

I agree that its not something a union is going to care about, as your still getting the training but it is worth asking why it has changed form only 6 weeks coastal to a full phase. it wont make any differences to the outcome but it will mean that you know why.