Being asked to pay for leaving my cadetship.

[agibbs98]

None of your messages appear until we approve them, you don’t need to post anything twice.

I am guessing that upon reading your contract, Nautilus have decided there is little way out of this. As others have said, we don’t know of anyone that has ever had to pay these fees back and anyone who says they have will never give any further info when asked, leading to the validity coming into question.

How is the clause worded? I’d be careful about staying you’ll pay anything as that may move this from “you would’ve got away with it like everyone else” to “you’re now the first person that has ever repaid and is living proof of it happening”.

[Guest]

Disclamer: I am not a legal professional, nor any kind of expert or authority in this subject matter. That being said:

Debt collectors have no legal powers to extract your property from you forcibly. They have no power to enter your place of residence or take from you without your consent. Don't open the door to them, don't let them in ect. This only happens after the matter has been to court (bailiffs). You have told your company you can't pay, you have even offered to pay on a realistic repayment schedule. The companies know cadets flush with money, thus cadets get the subsistence allowance. Don't pay, tell them you have offered a realistic payment schedule and you don't have the ability to pay now, tell them that's all you have to say on the matter. Cut off communication and see if they take it to court, my sincere bet is that they won't. If it does go to court you should seek proper legal advice, you will most likely be able to access some legal advice for free from charities ect. Don't be overly intimidated by the word "court", this would not be a criminal matter. Keep us updated.

Also nice to see Nautilus being useless yet again.

[Guest]

None of your messages appear until we approve them, you don’t need to post anything twice.

I am guessing that upon reading your contract, Nautilus have decided there is little way out of this. As others have said, we don’t know of anyone that has ever had to pay these fees back and anyone who says they have will never give any further info when asked, leading to the validity coming into question.

How is the clause worded? I’d be careful about staying you’ll pay anything as that may move this from “you would’ve got away with it like everyone else” to “you’re now the first person that has ever repaid and is living proof of it happening”.

Okay sorry, I didn't realise.

The contract states "if this Training Agreement is termianted for any reason expressed in Clause 21 including its subsections or is termianted by the Trainee Officer prior to completion of the Training Program then the Sponsor will be entitled on request to reimbursement from the Trainee Officer of all training costs expended in support of the Trainee Officer during the College Phases and such amount will be recoverable as a debt from the Trainee Officer and will include college fees, examination fees, other training costs, expenses and the Sponsorship Allowance paid. The extent of this liability will be limited to £3,000."

I've stated that I'd be able to pay back a small amount, as Nautilus advised that my only option was to try and arange a payment plan with my company, nonetheless they don't seem interested in my offer and have continued to ask me to pay an impossible amount. I understand your point, it may well have been better to refuse everything outright, however I attempted to discuss this with Nautilus and explained that there had been similar cases in which cadets have avoided paying, but this did not change their stance and they advised that I should not risk the matter being escalted and taken to court.

[Guest]

Disclamer: I am not a legal professional, nor any kind of expert or authority in this subject matter. That being said:

Debt collectors have no legal powers to extract your property from you forcibly. They have no power to enter your place of residence or take from you without your consent. Don't open the door to them, don't let them in ect. This only happens after the matter has been to court (bailiffs). You have told your company you can't pay, you have even offered to pay on a realistic repayment schedule. The companies know cadets flush with money, thus cadets get the subsistence allowance. Don't pay, tell them you have offered a realistic payment schedule and you don't have the ability to pay now, tell them that's all you have to say on the matter. Cut off communication and see if they take it to court, my sincere bet is that they won't. If it does go to court you should seek proper legal advice, you will most likely be able to access some legal advice for free from charities ect. Don't be overly intimidated by the word "court", this would not be a criminal matter. Keep us updated.

Also nice to see Nautilus being useless yet again.

That's reassuring. My gut feeling is that a lot of this is just scare mongering, but the prospect of having a debt collector chase me around is not a pleasant one, and my company were keen to remind me in their latest email that this would have a negative impact on my credit score. Nonethless I'm going to maintain my position and see what happens. Thanks for the advice.

[400 kV]

^above message was mine, didn't purposefully post anonymously.

Edit: The companies know cadets flush with money - should read - > The companies know cadets are not flush with money

[Waaarrrggghhh]

Of course it's a scaremongering tactic, that's how they get their money back by scaring you with debt collectors or credit score.

I was faced with a problem with a few parallels to yours, energy company I'd never ever heard of had mistaken me for another and gave me a bill for about £4000. I was with another provider and in a different property at the time.

I ignored their letters until they threatened me with debt collectors and negative credit rating. a stern letter and a few items of proof that I was never and could not possibly have been a customer of theirs at the time made them back off finally but it was stressful for sure.

[perksy121]

I feel I should just add a quick disclaimer that the majority of us are not Lawyers and if things continue to escalate and you do feel that they are serious about collecting against your training contract, then it may be worth getting some professional advice on the matter.

[Hotel_Bravo]

Was debating whether or not to post the following seeing as im not a lawyer or anything and this is mostly based on results from the internet. Here it is anyway but take it with the tiniest pinch of salt:
From what ive gathered, im fairly cerain that if the company were to send debt collectors you would really struggle to pay them. Seeing that youre unemployed and likely have very little savings, no house, no car etc. they probably wouldnt have much luck in finding possessions of yours to make up for the costs.
With that said, if they got a court order then the price is likely to increase due to court fees. But im not really how that then works in the case that you cant pay (do they come knocking every month for a little piece of your salary for the next 20 years??). You also need to remember that if youre living with your parents, most stuff is going to be their property so (i think) the bailiffs cant take anything of theirs in order to to repay your debt.

One thing you could possibly consider is saying to your company something along the lines of... "look, i cant afford to pay you £3000, so i can either give you £xxx (however much you can scrape together) and have it in your bank account by tomorrow, or you can try and persue me for it all, but i genuinely dont have enough to pay it sooo...". Id say its worth a shot to beg them and even possibly send bank statement to them proving you cant afford it if it comes to it.

Disclaimer: This is purely based on what i would personally do in this situation, i am not a lawyer nor a specialist in this topic, so this advice should not be relied upon for making decisions. I just feel like the company would probably be like "fine... we'll take what we can get", rather than paying fees for bailifs to scrape together whatever items of value you may (or may not) have. Seems like a lot of work for 3 grand!!

[Guest]

Hi,
Quick question - based on the current situation, are you ok completing your cadetship and then resigning?

After all, it is just 18 months on board total (6m x 3 contracts).
You will have better savings, and can stop sailing thereafter.
If you feel like it, you can get your 3rd mates license after the 18 months (UK is one of the few countries where we only have to give orals exams - no government written exams - just college written exams).

I am sure your employer will be more than happy, as they would be equally keen to avoid the hassle.

I know of cadets who had a bad time on board their first ship, some even left after a few weeks (mostly due to id..ots on board) and told the company The company arranged for a better ship for the 2nd ship.

[Guest]

I think some people might allegedly get themselves sacked on purpose so they don't have to pay anything back.

It's a weird situation where some people have to pay something back if they resign but not if they get themselves sacked.

[flobbernoggin]

The response from Nautilus shows why they are an absolute useless organisation that we should all stop paying a membership to. They are an absolute disgrace.

I wish people working at sea had a proper union rather than the circus we do have.

[Inland Pirate]

Stopped paying my dues after we were involved in an incident, and

1) On the initial phone call, they weren't really interested in me as OOW, and more whether my captain was signed up with them, and if not, whether I could get him to (Don't get the membership benefits for stuff prior to joining obviously, so clearly a money/numbers issue)

2) Really really really did not want to get involved on my behalf, said I shouldn't have had an incident in the first place

3) Finally sent me the paperwork for their legal assistance department - pre-filled with a yacht captain's claim for unpaid wages. Found him on linked in, told him, last I heard about it he was pursing a claim for breaching GDPR.

4) Appointed me a solicitor, who sent me several emails, acknowledged none of them and then terminated the support on the basis of none engagement.

5) When I argued back against the termination with my proof of replies, said "Oh well, it's too late now, you'll probably be all right anyway

Turns out I was alright, but no thanks to them and it wasn't exactly the support and friendly face you want if the proverbial is hitting the fan.

Then had the cheek when I cancelled my membership to tell me that you had to give 3 months notice of your 'resignation', so I owed dues for that period. Funnily enough, despite letters threatening debt collectors, nothing ever happened...

[Guest]

The response from Nautilus shows why they are an absolute useless organisation that we should all stop paying a membership to. They are an absolute disgrace.

I wish people working at sea had a proper union rather than the circus we do have.

It really is terrible, they seem more concerned with helping out the companies rather than the seafarers.

[Guest]

It really is terrible, they seem more concerned with helping out the companies rather than the seafarers.

Yes they are a joke.

It is so depressing when you see seafarers in Norway with a strong union that looks after them and protects their pay and conditions, but in the UK we have nothing.

In many cases the pay and conditions you see on offer these days are worse than they were 20 years ago. Rates like £150 to £200 per day were good 20 years ago but its not worth working at sea for that kind of money these days. The unions do nothing to try and combat these low rates.

These days a lot of companies offer day rate contracts instead of salaried ones which is another very bad development but the unions do nothing about that either.

[sailorj93]

I'll just jump in quickly with a kind word about Nautilus.. When I was having issues moving ashore they were super helpful - drafted legal letters, put me in touch with solicitors all covered by my membership dues. The solicitors themselves weren't overly helpful - but the contact at Nautilus (who still works there) was fantastic.

I also at another stage of my career worked for a company represented by them with collective bargaining agreements and the pay/conditions were amongst the best of all friends I had working at sea. Each 2 years there was a decent rise.

People sometimes have a warped idea of what a Union should do - I don't think Nautilus are bad really. They are really not very militant - but considering so many seafarers seem to be quite happy to job hop, move for small pay rises, and actively not organise as a collective, I can understand that Nautilus are on a tight rope trying to balance.

They are stuck between a rock and a hard place wrt T&C's. There isn't strong government legislation to support action, if everyone downed tools, there would be buses of replacement crew on the way within days and the Union can't do a thing. The government can, but choose not to. Remember P&O?