Being asked to pay for leaving my cadetship.

[Guest]

Hi guys,

I had a pretty awful first sea phase for various reasons, and so I decided to leave part way through my trip. I know many of you would've advised me to at least complete the first phase, but for me this just wasn't possible. I didn't make this decision lightly, but I have now officially resigned and I have no regrets regarding this. My problem right now is that my company is requesting that I reimburse them £3,000, as per my contract.

The UK Government's Apprenticeship Funding Rules for Employers states that an individual cannot be asked to pay for any aspect of the apprenticeship, even if the training programme is terminated early. Do these rules apply to cadetships?

I've had a look around at other posts on this forums, and it seems that most cadets are not required to reimburse their company. Does anyone have any advice? Is this repayment clause enforceable?

Thanks in advance.

[perksy121]

I'm sure I've heard that Nautilus have been able to help ex-cadets in your position, could be worth getting in touch with them?

[Waaarrrggghhh]

Clyde marine I'm guessing? Don't pay whatever you do. They say this in the contract but they don't have a legal leg to stand on regarding this.

[Guest]

Do not even entertain the idea of paying them back.

if they try to pursue you, it would end up in court “leading maritime training provider forces unemployed student to pay back thousands after providing a terrible experience”.

Nautilus will help you out, or you can just ignore.

[agibbs98]

The caveat to anything I say below is get better advice from people who can interpret contracts and work in this field. Either get the union to look at it, a solicitor (might be much cheaper than you think), or for free I’d recommend Money Saving Expert forums for stuff like this, there are several geniuses on it.

I have several examples of this and they essentially agree with some of the other posts.

Example one, qualified seafarers being put on several high level courses before leaving their job and getting chased for costs. All ignored and none were pursued. None had contracts which stated the amounts that would be owed, how it would be calculated etc. It appeared the company tried their luck in the hope they’d just pay up and it’d be an easy win.

Example two, qualified seafarers being put on expensive courses before losing their jobs. They were chased to pay all the money back and ignored it, and nothing happened. Again it appears the already struggling company was trying to pull a fast one on them to recoup a quick buck.

Example three, sitting a senior ticket with my old employer. Part of the paperwork before they accepted paying for it all was you signing to say you agreed to pay back specific amounts if you left before a certain date. It was specifically worked out and to the tune of if you left on day 1 after getting the ticket you’d owe £40,000, if you left 3 months later it was £38,000 etc etc until it was like if you left 23 months later you owed £500. People did leave in these periods and they’d pay, as it was clear the system was created with the intention of making it legally impossible to wiggle away. It was a signed contract stapled onto your employment contract.

Example four, people started “abusing” my land based employer for certain expensive qualifications before leaving them. It happened for a good 4-5 years and although they tried to get people to pay back it never worked and they had to swallow their words, eventually they moved to the system in example three - and then nobody took the job and they had to raise the salary by around £15k, so probably an overall loss for them!

I’d find the exact clause in your contract that may mention this and head over to the MSE forums to explain the basics of the situation and the contract.

[Guest]

First of all, I am sorry to hear what of what happened.
All of the above responses from other forum members sound sensible.
Here is my opinion -
1) Put your stand clearly in writing, and keep records (which date, what email you sent your recruiter). Describe the reasons why circumstances on board (I assume) forced you and left you no choice, but to resign. Explain that you simply do not have that kind of money to pay (My experience is that most companies lose interest when you tell then 5 times that you dont have that kind of money with you. If you instead start to argue the case under other grounds, they will enjoy the sparring and get you entangled in a zillion technicalities and wear you down)

Do note, it is also the recruiter's responsibility (by law of tort) to ensure that you will get an environment and conditions on board which treats you, the trainee with dignity, and while people on board can be strict, and can ask you to work for the STCW legal max amt (13 hrs in any 24 hour period) - all perfectly legal - they cannot treat you badly or bully you (the word has a very extensive spectrum of meanings - which would include the way half of us were treated at sea!). You have'nt told us, so I am assumming this might have been the case (I have yet to sail on a ship where we did not have a few idiots - and these idiots can make life on board horrible when they are your immediate bosses).

2) I have not gone through the UK regg on trainees and apprentices with a fine toothed comb (you'll find the official version in the UK Gov tonnage tax link posted on this forum last week), but if you are sure it states what you have mentioned, simply send it to your recruiter. There is always a good chance that they do this mostly to dissuade other cadets from leaving - something that 1/4th of the cadets consider doing after their first ship, when they realise that real sealife is nothing like what was advertised / what they had imagined. This has been going on at least for the last 30+ years. My seniors tell me this has been going on since the 1970s.

3) If you dont have any issue with it and are 100% sure of your stand, jsut send an email to the MCA stating the above, cc to your recruiting agency. Most probably none of them will reply. The good part - your recruiting agency will stop contacting / pestering you.

And of course - dont pay any money to anyone.

Hope the above was helpful

[Hatchorder]

I have read something in the original post which raises a question.......

...... and so I decided to leave part way through my trip..........

You need to tell us what the £3,000 relates to. If you were repatriated because you quit then I believe that the company can ask for reimbursement of the costs of repatriation. You need to look at the wording in your contract.

If it is merely them trying to recover costs associated with the cadetship then I have never heard of a successful case of a Company getting a cadet to pay something for dropping out.

Please clarify what the £3,000 is for.

Regards,

Ian

[Guest]

I have read something in the original post which raises a question.......



You need to tell us what the £3,000 relates to. If you were repatriated because you quit then I believe that the company can ask for reimbursement of the costs of repatriation. You need to look at the wording in your contract.

If it is merely them trying to recover costs associated with the cadetship then I have never heard of a successful case of a Company getting a cadet to pay something for dropping out.

Please clarify what the £3,000 is for.

Regards,

Ian

This £3,000 relates to all training costs paid out by my company so far, as per the termination clause in my contract.

[Guest]

Do not even entertain the idea of paying them back.

if they try to pursue you, it would end up in court “leading maritime training provider forces unemployed student to pay back thousands after providing a terrible experience”.

Nautilus will help you out, or you can just ignore.

I have contacted Nautilus, so far their only advice is to sort out a repayment agreement with my training company, they have not even entertained the idea that I shouldn't have to pay anything back.

[Guest]

Clyde marine I'm guessing? Don't pay whatever you do. They say this in the contract but they don't have a legal leg to stand on regarding this.

Not Clyde Marine actually, this is a British company with British-flagged vessels.

[Guest]

I'm sure I've heard that Nautilus have been able to help ex-cadets in your position, could be worth getting in touch with them?

I have contacted Nautilus, but so far their only advice is to arrange a repayment agreement with the company. I have made it clear that I am unemployed and going to university this September, but they still seem certain that I have no other option but to pay.

[agibbs98]

Are you a member of Nautilus? If not, and you’ve left, when did you leave?

[Guest]

Are you a member of Nautilus? If not, and you’ve left, when did you leave?

I am currently a member of Nautilus and have been in discussion with them after having read on this forum that they have helped cadets in similar situations avoid making any payments, however in my case they have simply advised me to try and work out a repayment plan with my training provider, and if unsuccessful then I should just accept that the company could get a debt collector invovled.

[Guest]

Are you a member of Nautilus? If not, and you’ve left, when did you leave?

I am now at the point where my company has emailed a letter with a so-called "final offer" regarding my payment plan before they get a debt collector invovled. I've refused this offer and have maintained that I am unemployed, applying for student loans, and going to university in September. I don't know whether these are all empty threats, or if they are actually going to pursue me for this money, but either way it's pretty unnerving.

[Guest]

Are you a member of Nautilus? If not, and you’ve left, when did you leave?

I am still a member of Nautilus, they have only advised that I attempt to arrange a repayment plan with my company, and if that fails, they are welcome to take the matter to court. This seems completely different to the other cases I have read about on this forum.

I have been emailed a "last chance" letter before the matter is handed over to a debt collector, which I have refused as it is simply not feasible for an unemployed student currently applying for student loans to repay the amount they are asking. I've stated that I would be happy to repay a small amount each month, but they have not acknowledged this. Perhaps these are just empty threats, but whatever the case it's pretty unnerving.