ENG1 Medical: Asperger's Syndrome

[Guest]

I have recently applied to many sponsoring companies for a cadetship. I was diagnosed with Aspergers when I was a toddler, these days as a young adult it is pretty much non-existant (has been like this for the past couple of years at least). It was a minor issue during my teens, but not particularly significant in any way which I would link to working on a ship. I have not yet disclosed the above condition as I don't see that it fits any of the medical questions asked in an application form (I certainly wouldn't describe it as a Nervous Disorder, for example). I will, however, need to disclose the diagnosis at an ENG 1 medical. Having viewed both the ENG 1 requirements and the AD notes, I am confident that I would not be restricted by my condition.

My current employer (retail) doesn't know about my diagnosis, I don't claim any benefits, I have a full, clean driving licence and I did well at school. I would be surprised if the MN interviewers (I do have interviews soon) would discover it unless they were informed. Would it be a good idea to discuss it at interview, or wait till the ENG 1.

Thanks for any help on this.

[Chiefy]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

I assume you arent on any meds, if you are then these have to declare them in the Medical, but not sure it'll even come up.

BUT we arent doctors round here you might want to talk to a Doctor or even the one doing your ENG 1.

Aspergers is such a wide ranging spectrum of disorders that to be honest lots of people would be counted as suffering if they where tested

I suspect you will have mild OCD too which if controlled can have it's uses

Give me a few days will talk to my sister about this...she is an expert (having 3 kids ALL aspie) and I'll get back with a bit more thoughts.

[stronglead]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

I would wait and see what the doc says and go from there they are at the end of the day the ones who should know, if you are worried about it discuss it with the company at your interview when they give you your chance to ask questions etc and explain what you just said there, Personally I think if it dosent effect you doing your job then it should be ok but don't take my word on it as well im not a doctor and I don't know enough about what you have to say so see the pros

[YoungMariner]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

If you pass an ENG1 and declare it the medical examiner, and you don't feel it affects you in everyday life, then I don't see the problem.
As for declaring it an employer, unless it's specifically asked for on a medical declaration, then it isn't necessary to imform them.
If you thought it was going to affect your work and life, then that a different story.

[Chiefy]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Ok talked to my sister, her only thoughts are it's no ones business UNLESS you are asked OR you have meds which have to be declared. Given most diagnosticians only offer a diagnosis on observed behavior if you have "out grown" or (more likely) learnt to cope and control then you should be just fine.

Will be worth mentioning it at the ENG1 and see if the Doc even raises an eye brow.

[Guest]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Thanks very much for the information provided so far. I won't mention Asperger's at interview but I will declare it at the ENG 1.

[beer-engineer]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Remember shipping companies are businesses. If you have an accident on ship, related to your illness or not, then they will use that against paying for medical treatment if they eventually find out. I'd tell them because the chances you will have to hurt yourself occur quite a bit.

[YoungMariner]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

I sort of see where your coming from beer-engineer, but if its declared at the ENG1 and the ENG1 is issued, isn't that end of story for something like Aspergers?

[Guest]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

I think you're supposed to disclose everything. I'm sure theres like a list and then an 'anything else?' category. I'm not sure. But even something like a broken leg on ship, if they find you lied and made you pay for everything your theoretically f*#@ed. Thats all shipboard medical stuff, plus a possible helicopter to pay for, then the shore side stuff and then your trip home. Its costly!

[Lewis]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Ok talked to my sister, her only thoughts are it's no ones business UNLESS you are asked OR you have meds which have to be declared. Given most diagnosticians only offer a diagnosis on observed behavior if you have "out grown" or (more likely) learnt to cope and control then you should be just fine.

Will be worth mentioning it at the ENG1 and see if the Doc even raises an eye brow.

I would mention it. Health insurance companies are very good at dodging paying out. So if you don't and later get a problem abroad even if it's unrelated they could use it as an excuse not to pay medical expenses or repatriation. This could leave you thousands out of pocket.

[Superdandroid17]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Disclosure is generally best - it saves any problems later on.

Im pretty sure all the companies have an application question along the lines do you have any medical cond......

[dawg]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

Ok talked to my sister, her only thoughts are it's no ones business UNLESS you are asked OR you have meds which have to be declared. Given most diagnosticians only offer a diagnosis on observed behavior if you have "out grown" or (more likely) learnt to cope and control then you should be just fine.

Will be worth mentioning it at the ENG1 and see if the Doc even raises an eye brow.

I don't really think the ENG1 is especially thorough or serious as a medical. Some might want you in your pants so they can touch your sweetbreads; others may not even ask you take more than your shoes off.

Disclosure is generally best - it saves any problems later on.

Im pretty sure all the companies have an application question along the lines do you have any medical cond......

I'm pretty sure they don't.

Moreover, I don't think things like Asperger's or dyslexia are covered by the ENG1. There are certainly cadets and qualified officers with these types of conditions; it doesn't appear to be a problem.

I don't think you need to answer questions that you think anyone might ask, just answer a question if it comes up in writing; if it doesn't; what is there to add? You could be there a long time answering questions that no-one's asked you.
AIUI, the precise wording of contracts and bits of admin you do along the way does matter - if an employer fails to ask about something, or asks poorly-constructed/misinterpretable/unreasonable questions, then it can come to bite them later on.
Questions in questionnaires, and clauses in contracts have to (by law) be "reasonable" and relevant, no employer can just string together anything they like... some go for very basic ones and some for epic ones: they vary.
I suspect there are EU Human Rights related privacy laws that would preclude any sponsor or employer from requiring you to "disclose everything".

AIUI, you answer what's asked, and keep a record; and get them to sign and make sure it's clear what's agreed. If for some reason something comes up later that wasn't covered, then it seems to me that it's quite reasonable to say that you can't be expected to answer questions you weren't asked (i.e. to second guess your employer).
Contracts (which is ultimately what the OP is about) are meant to be balanced with rights and responsibilities conferred to both sides.

So, no, you don't need to mention it at interview... even if they ask directly "have you got condition X", you don't have to answer... but you might want to ask "Why?", because interview questions have to be relevant to the job.

[GuinnessMan]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

In my opinon, I would disclose it. Mental Health is also a part of the ENG 1 and they would need to know if you are mentally healthy. From what I understand, Asperger's can also lead to a person having problems with motor skills and perception.

There is normally a clause somewhere that asks if you have any mental health issues so disclosure is probably a good idea...

[Lewis]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

besides imagine passing your first eng1 because you don't mention it. Then 2 years later you get caught out on your second medical. If it is enough to fail you, you'll have wasted 2 years of your life. Best to disclose it that way at least you'll know from the start where you stand.

[dawg]

Re: Asperger's Syndrome

In my opinon, I would disclose it. Mental Health is also a part of the ENG 1 and they would need to know if you are mentally healthy. From what I understand, Asperger's can also lead to a person having problems with motor skills and perception.

There is normally a clause somewhere that asks if you have any mental health issues so disclosure is probably a good idea...

AIUI, Asperger's (=HFA) is not a mental health issue. However, "mental health" issues (depression, anxiety, OCD) can coincide with it: http://www.autism.org.uk/en-gb/working- ... drome.aspx
...but then again, they can occur with anyone for any number of reasons, so I'm not sure there's a case for singling out HFA for special treatment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnosis_ ... c_criteria

AIUI, any issues with motor skills and perception can be picked up by the relevant tests for that in the ENG1 that anyone is examined on. AIUI, the ENG1 is designed to evaluate a person's fitness for working at sea, and if a person passes all the tests in it, then they are fit to work at sea, any conditions they have that are not mentioned or covered by the text of the ENG1 are not relevant in terms of being given an ENG1 cert., however some symptoms may inthemselves cause someone to fail some part of it... but they fail because they can't pass that part of the test, not because of the underlying condition, if it's not covered.

5.3 It should be noted that a seafarer medical certificate becomes invalid if the seafarer develops any of the conditions listed below or a disability affecting fitness to work; this includes mental as well as physical conditions. Anew ENG 1 or ML5 certificate will need to be obtained on recovery.

Epileptic seizures or sudden disturbances of the state of consciousness
Coronary thrombosis or heart surgery
Problems with heart rhythm or disease of the heart or arteries
Blood pressure not well controlled by drugs
Insulin-dependent diabetes
Stroke or unexplained loss of consciousness
Severe head injury with continuing loss of consciousness
Parkinson?s Disease
Multiple Sclerosis
Mental or nervous problems
Alcohol or drug addiction
Profound deafness
Double or tunnel vision
Any other condition affecting fitness to navigate a vessel

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mcga-mnotice. ... 1B7F19B427

"Mental or nervous problems" sounds like "Anxiety & Depression"

"Any other condition affecting fitness to navigate a vessel" doesn't really pass muster without some criteria for an assessment of whether any of a million conditions you've never heard of falls into this category.
They can't expect a seafarer to be a doctor or psychiatrist and diagnose themselves - that's unreasonable (and a bit daft).

i.e.: what does "fitness to navigate a vessel mean"?

Probably have to look at the contents of STCW95 or some MCA notices to get an idea:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/mgn_315_amended_2.pdf

However, this is one for a doctor or psychiatrist. A GP is not qualified to assess whether a condition like HFA affects fitness to navigate a vessel, he would have to refer you to a specialist, such as these:
http://www.dilemmaconsultancy.org/consu ... antam.html
http://www.adrc.co.uk/
http://www.oaasis.co.uk/Free_Publications_6/Diagnosis

There may be a case for the MCA (or whoever) to reexamine this part of the ENG1.

In practice, I expect the average ENG1 Doctor won't be interested in getting into referrals like this that cost time and money, and would just interpret the wording of the ENG1 in a way that requires them to do the minimum amount of work.

It's all very well mentioning it to a Doctor, but unless it's in writing, and unless they have some expertise or willingness to refer to a specialist who can actually give an answer to the OP's underlying question (i.e. does HFA mean you can't work at sea), then it seems rather pointless to me. If you're looking for legal protection, would a doctor willingly put themselves in a position where they could be (legally) blamed for something? I doubt it.