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Is this the end of the shipping industry for brits?

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  • Originally posted by Guest View Post
    It doesn't help either that we have no union that will fight exclusively for the rights of seafarers from the UK, nautilus accepts anyone and everyone from any country so can't be seen to be fighting exclusively for seafarers from the UK.

    Maybe the RMT is a UK only union, don't know much about them, but they seem to be mainly for ratings.

    I think almost every other seafaring country in the world has a union that is exclusively for officers who are citizens of the specific country the union is based in.

    Lots of younger people seem to have undergone woke indoctrination in schools, if you mention anything about protecting UK seafarers jobs they call you a racist or quote the South Park "they too our jobs" scene. They are so woke they seem to enjoy seeing UK seafarers being replaced by people from lower wage countries.
    It isn't that Nautilus specifically are weak in the UK, it's more that unions have no power in the UK now. Years ago the RMT used to put my old company's vessels on the wall over things like crew laundry and towels being too hard, now they are fighting for below-inflation pay rises. On the contrary, the nations you're thinking of with strong seafarer's unions have strong unions for all of their industries. The UK is quite unique in the sense that unions are powerless, you'll find 90% of people south of London detest the idea of unions and think they're some communist evil. This being the seat of the majority of the tax revenue and also a large section of the population seems to sway the leadership of the nation and our companies.

    I don't think you'll find many under 30s that know what the term "merchant navy" means, so I'm sure nearly 100% of them have no opinion on whether or not UK seafaring jobs should be for UK people.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by agibbs98 View Post

      It isn't that Nautilus specifically are weak in the UK, it's more that unions have no power in the UK now. Years ago the RMT used to put my old company's vessels on the wall over things like crew laundry and towels being too hard, now they are fighting for below-inflation pay rises. On the contrary, the nations you're thinking of with strong seafarer's unions have strong unions for all of their industries. The UK is quite unique in the sense that unions are powerless, you'll find 90% of people south of London detest the idea of unions and think they're some communist evil. This being the seat of the majority of the tax revenue and also a large section of the population seems to sway the leadership of the nation and our companies.

      I don't think you'll find many under 30s that know what the term "merchant navy" means, so I'm sure nearly 100% of them have no opinion on whether or not UK seafaring jobs should be for UK people.
      I think part of the reason that the unions lost their power is the kind of thing you mention. They took it too far having ferries stop due to strikes over towels etc, people had enough and they lost their power. Ironic the people who benefited from unions in the 70's are more than likely the ones voting for brexit and the conservatives now.

      I'm from south of London I don't believe that unions are a communist evil, I do however feel that Nautilus has been self serving in encouraging more people into the industry to pay their membership fees and therefore their wages.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by zrrhqgjv View Post

        I think part of the reason that the unions lost their power is the kind of thing you mention. They took it too far having ferries stop due to strikes over towels etc, people had enough and they lost their power. Ironic the people who benefited from unions in the 70's are more than likely the ones voting for brexit and the conservatives now.

        I'm from south of London I don't believe that unions are a communist evil, I do however feel that Nautilus has been self serving in encouraging more people into the industry to pay their membership fees and therefore their wages.
        I don't like Nautilus as they seemed extremely weak for P&O Ferries, I joined RMT instead. Gave me the same protections (this "legal protection for your license" tripe is sales gimmick, they use the same law firm all of the unions use) but for much less money and they're much more active in helping you out with issues. I agree with you on how ironic it is though that these people are now as you say they are.

        Comment


        • If you look at the ships working out of places like Aberdeen and Montrose so many of them are crewed by people from Scandinavian countries, especially Norway, Scandinavians generally get paid much more than people from the UK so it's not all about cheap labour. Some of the ships will also work in Norwegian waters, but many of them they seem to spend most of their time working in the UK waters.

          I think there are strict Norwegian language requirements for people working on vessel operating in the Norwegian EEZ, I think the people in the deck department have to speak Norwegian (maybe the Engineers too) for safety reasons. If there is an ETO who works by themselves I think they can be from another country like Poland etc and not speak Norwegian.

          It's hard to find hard data but it wouldn't surprise me if there were more Norwegians than people from the UK working on offshore vessels in UK waters.

          Comment


          • Nautilus are a bunch of self serving tossers and always have been... if your lucky to work for a company they have any involvement with then they may be of some use - but for the majority of us they’re about as useful as a chocolate tea pot...

            We all saw how vocal and useful they were over the whole furlow thing and seafarers

            Join one of the other unions or the nautical institute which is cheaper and offers the same licence protection and actually has a fairly interesting monthly magazine.
            “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

            – Mark Twain
            myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

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            • Originally posted by agibbs98 View Post

              I don't like Nautilus as they seemed extremely weak for P&O Ferries, I joined RMT instead. Gave me the same protections (this "legal protection for your license" tripe is sales gimmick, they use the same law firm all of the unions use) but for much less money and they're much more active in helping you out with issues. I agree with you on how ironic it is though that these people are now as you say they are.
              I think union membership is particularly pointless for any seafarers unless you are with a company who have a CBA with them. If you are like me and are one of a few brits in the company then they are next to useless. The whole ticket insurance thing is a scam, the nautical institute offer legal cover insurance, and are a far more worthwhile organisation to be a member of.

              And they certainly shouldn't be allowed to go around to the collages telling cadets scare stories and pressuring them to join up.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by alistairuk View Post
                Nautilus are a bunch of self serving tossers and always have been... if your lucky to work for a company they have any involvement with then they may be of some use - but for the majority of us they’re about as useful as a chocolate tea pot...

                We all saw how vocal and useful they were over the whole furlow thing and seafarers

                Join one of the other unions or the nautical institute which is cheaper and offers the same licence protection and actually has a fairly interesting monthly magazine.
                P&O Ferries officially recognise Nautilus as the union for officers and work with them on all issues - they were still useless. Any success they had was the success of the recognised ratings union, RMT, and Nautilus would pipe up as if it was their own success.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by zrrhqgjv View Post

                  I think union membership is particularly pointless for any seafarers unless you are with a company who have a CBA with them. If you are like me and are one of a few brits in the company then they are next to useless. The whole ticket insurance thing is a scam, the nautical institute offer legal cover insurance, and are a far more worthwhile organisation to be a member of.

                  And they certainly shouldn't be allowed to go around to the collages telling cadets scare stories and pressuring them to join up.
                  As above in my reply at the exact same time, to clarify P&O Ferries had a CBA with Nautilus and they were useless. I remember the scare stories on day one of college from a Nautilus rep, precisely zero of us signed up and found the thing quite comical. It was clear he was there on a mission to try and indoctrinate the newbies as they're a lost cause with most experienced guys.

                  I believe in P&O Ferries there was a navigational incident a while back and an OOW got the sack, the two watch ratings who were also responsible and appeared to be the main issue on the bridge (distracting others and playing on their phones behind the chart table whilst a bulker carrier came within meters of a ROPAX vessel!) got union backing and ended up as company heroes.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zrrhqgjv View Post

                    I think part of the reason that the unions lost their power is the kind of thing you mention. They took it too far having ferries stop due to strikes over towels etc, people had enough and they lost their power. Ironic the people who benefited from unions in the 70's are more than likely the ones voting for brexit and the conservatives now.

                    I'm from south of London I don't believe that unions are a communist evil, I do however feel that Nautilus has been self serving in encouraging more people into the industry to pay their membership fees and therefore their wages.
                    Well those people more than likely voted to join the EEC, have a lived experience of it and then a majority voted leave so they were probably far more informed and qualified to make a decision than you or I ever would be. You seem to be horribly ageist, you're like one of those people that claims to be oh so progressive and woke but in reality you are horrible and incredibly intolerant under that thin layer of varnish you wear. I know the type, I was surrounded by them during my university days.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Waaarrrggghhh View Post

                      Well those people more than likely voted to join the EEC, have a lived experience of it and then a majority voted leave so they were probably far more informed and qualified to make a decision than you or I ever would be. You seem to be horribly ageist, you're like one of those people that claims to be oh so progressive and woke but in reality you are horrible and incredibly intolerant under that thin layer of varnish you wear. I know the type, I was surrounded by them during my university days.
                      Ad hominem.

                      Accusations of intolerence, ageism or being 'horrible' don't imply his claims are either true or false. Both are pure logical fallacies and simple reflections of your emotions overruling any form of rational thinking process.

                      The posters reflection on the changing political climate over the last 50 years is in fact correct, regardless of whether you find it offensive or not. The current elder generation, the Baby Boomers, would not have tolerated the increasingly poor working conditions and levels of debt encountered by today's youth. This it not a fringe theory and is a well discussed issue.

                      Being old also does not imply you are better informed or qualified than anybody else within our society. I think before accusing others of ageism, you should consider the falsehoods in your own opinions.

                      Comment


                      • I've been searching for a long long time and can't find a job at sea, think I'm going to move industry and work in the supermarkets, the money is almost as good, especially when you get to manager level. Lots of other benefits too.

                        Could it be false advertising when people say there is a shortage of officers from the UK when there must actually be a big surplus.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WesternStar View Post

                          Ad hominem.

                          Accusations of intolerence, ageism or being 'horrible' don't imply his claims are either true or false. Both are pure logical fallacies and simple reflections of your emotions overruling any form of rational thinking process.

                          The posters reflection on the changing political climate over the last 50 years is in fact correct, regardless of whether you find it offensive or not. The current elder generation, the Baby Boomers, would not have tolerated the increasingly poor working conditions and levels of debt encountered by today's youth. This it not a fringe theory and is a well discussed issue.

                          Being old also does not imply you are better informed or qualified than anybody else within our society. I think before accusing others of ageism, you should consider the falsehoods in your own opinions.
                          Read the thread and look at his post history.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Waaarrrggghhh View Post

                            Well those people more than likely voted to join the EEC, have a lived experience of it and then a majority voted leave so they were probably far more informed and qualified to make a decision than you or I ever would be. You seem to be horribly ageist, you're like one of those people that claims to be oh so progressive and woke but in reality you are horrible and incredibly intolerant under that thin layer of varnish you wear. I know the type, I was surrounded by them during my university days.
                            https://www.officercadet.com/forum/d...-without-ships

                            Looking at your post here your are obviously a lovely person capable of considering another persons viewpoint.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Waaarrrggghhh View Post

                              Read the thread and look at his post history.
                              Ad hominem again?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Guest View Post
                                I've been searching for a long long time and can't find a job at sea, think I'm going to move industry and work in the supermarkets, the money is almost as good, especially when you get to manager level. Lots of other benefits too.

                                Could it be false advertising when people say there is a shortage of officers from the UK when there must actually be a big surplus.
                                Hello,

                                Are you Deck? How long have you been looking?


                                Comment

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