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Cadet mistreatment during Sea Phases

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  • #16
    I don't understand why the OP feels the need to be anonymous. If he's doing this survey with the cooperation of the NI, the CoS and some politicians (as his other thread mentions) why is he not willing to tell us who he is? If he did this (perhaps with some proof) I'm sure people would be more willing to respond.
    io parlo morse

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    • #17
      This is getting confusing. Is this a joint project or are there two separate studies going on?

      I fully agree that this is a serious subject, and I have no desire to stifle any research, but can anyone address any of the valid concerns raised by previous posters regarding research methods, credibility and scope?
      sigpic
      Hello! I'm Chris. I'm away a lot so I'm sorry if it takes me a while to reply to messages, but I promise I'll get back to everyone. If it's urgent, please email me directly at christopher.doyle@officercadet.com.

      Need books, Flip Cards or chartwork instruments? Visit SailorShop.co.uk!

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      • #18
        The other thread was actually started by me, I didn't start this thread. I wanted anonymity as I am still a cadet and assumed that was the function of this forum. I was obviously mistaken
        So are you actually working with the various groups you said you were or is that

        Originally posted by CharlieDelta View Post
        This is getting confusing. Is this a joint project or are there two separate studies going on?

        I fully agree that this is a serious subject, and I have no desire to stifle any research, but can anyone address any of the valid concerns raised by previous posters regarding research methods, credibility and scope?
        I agree with you CD, this is a serious subject and it has to be treated as such. A single question poll and asking for stories just gives me the impression that either there is a single agenda or pre-determined outcome for this study with a large dollop of confirmation bias or this is a journo looking for a scare story for tomorrow's fishwrappers.

        To be honest, I wonder if it's worth OC running this study and data collection in conjunction with HCMM / NI, MNTB, CoS and IMarEST as we have the contacts in the right organisations, we have the people who know how to conduct a study like this lurking in the background as members and I genuinely think that none of the MODS who would oversee it have a particular axe to grind against any of the training organisations or sponsor companies and so would not be perceived as having a particular bias?
        Last edited by Chiefy; 8th December 2016, 11:37 AM.
        I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

        All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

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        • #19
          The other thread was actually started by me, I didn't start this thread. I wanted anonymity as I am still a cadet and assumed that was the function of this forum. I was obviously mistaken
          No you arent, but by the same token you didnt read this thread which was already running, as such there is now some confusion as to who is doing what, with whom and for why.

          I fully agree this is serious but as per previous some of the abuses/ mistreatment are a view point and opinion and not actually either.

          So a clean start and a decent survey monkey survey might be in order, so if someone who needs a project for their degree feels this is of interest it is obvious there is need and plenty of interest for some new and interesting research, I for one have seen enough rest hour violation research, fatigue research and electronic nav aids research

          But then I'm a grumpy old man, I know this to be true as my boss has used that phrase to describe me and m colleagues *proud face*
          Last edited by Chiefy; 8th December 2016, 11:37 AM.
          Trust me I'm a Chief.

          Views expressed by me are mine and mine alone.
          Yes I work for the big blue canoe company.
          No I do not report things from here to them as they are quite able to come and read this stuff for themselves.


          Twitter:- @DeeChief

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          • #20
            Thanks for the suggestions guys!
            GuinessMan, it wasn't a lie! I can provide you with more details privately if you wish, but I don't want to disclose them on a public forum now other than what I've already said in my other post (which is now locked)

            Re the suggestions for survey monkey or similar, that was our plan to draw something like that up in the new year but we needed something to base it around. All the violations I've experienced (work rest hours, physical abuse etc) might well be different from the majority of other people's experiences so we wanted to gain as much anecdotal evidence to base the survey around, if that makes sense.

            I do not know who the original poster here was, but I believe one of the unions I have spoken to are in close contact with a nautical institute regarding this matter so it is possible that they wanted to get their own input from this forum too! Or it could just be a coincidence. Either way, is it possible to get my other thread unlocked? I feel that this is the best medium for gathering specific experiences until we can put a survey together.

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            • #21
              I'm going to say no to unlocking the other thread,.....However. ...........

              If people have experiences they wish to share then they can do so privately to you on here, that way we keep both Web site and the parties concerned exposure to a minimum.

              I arent sure about some legal aspects but rather than cause issues, bad feeling, or witch hunts then people know your user name and can pm you their stories etc, this also goes for the OP the admin team can see the ip and email address of posters as such we could be in a bad place if anyone wants to set any attack dogs on us etc etc.

              I you also wich to add further protection set up an anon gmail account and post it here, and use it only for your research until you are ready to move forward with a well crafted proper survey.

              I do hope you understand the thoughts behind this

              Chiefy
              Trust me I'm a Chief.

              Views expressed by me are mine and mine alone.
              Yes I work for the big blue canoe company.
              No I do not report things from here to them as they are quite able to come and read this stuff for themselves.


              Twitter:- @DeeChief

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              • #22
                The other post mentions pay - cadets are paid more than UK apprentices and it's needless to say they (over three years) put in less hours than an apprentice. At my previous job at a rail firm the apprentices were paid £2 odd an hour over a four year programme and from year 2 onwards were expected to do the job 7-5 per day (while others were doing 7-3, for £35-55k) AND THEN attend the training rooms for portfolio work, with college OR compulsory work on Saturdays.

                As for the cadet wage itself, it was more than enough... we could afford accommodation, cars/monthly travel home, good food/take aways and nights out. On the sea phase the wage drop reflected your lack of spending on accommodation/travel/food.

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                • #23
                  Right now I'm working at sea and getting paid £1.33 per hour. I know people who are getting paid less due to working more than the hours I am working (12 hours a day, 7 days a week). The pay isn't a MASSIVE issue for me but I'm very aware that it is for others, particularly older cadets who already have commitments. I don't know if any apprenticeships in the UK that pay that little but perhaps there are, I still don't think that makes it right though.

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                  • #24
                    Remember that seafarers are never paid per hour, we are paid day rates. I'm on a very good annual wage now but if I worked it out to be an hourly rate I'd be on barely anything.

                    Older cadets need to make a sacrifice to take on a cadetship granted, I know plenty who did it and lived comfortably.

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                    • #25
                      Yes, the whole hourly rate thing is a bit of an odd thing, how do you measure our wages, I get a salary so am I on the same rate all day everyday regardless of where I am (upside down I a crankcase or proping up my local economy by hunting tigers)

                      Or

                      Do I get double money while on a ship and nothing on leave, then there are the hours I work, ok so now they are mandated with rest periods etc, but it's still alot of hours, in honesty I work alot though not always in a conventional sense, I read emails at 050p I do stuff up till bed time, I get call out and stand by, some of which is hard to put into a box for hours of rest etc.

                      And yes cadet wages arent awesome, there is a little bit of eyes on the prize required to get you through, but trying to work an hourly rate, that way lays madness......I've had this discussion with others many many times and still don't agree with just a straight I did this today therfore I got this/hour.

                      As for abuse and that, again very much in the eye of the beholder, and as with many things the complainants point of view will not be the same the one being complained against, not recently but I have seen group emails go round asking (telling) us not to be so harsh on the cadets as it is putting them off and scaring them. Seriously? At sea, where our biggest fear is fire/flood, getting an arse kicking for not doing your job, not holding up your end of the bargain scars the precious little flowers, then may I use say , get a grip, put on your big boy/girl pants and get on with it.

                      True abuse needs stamping out, it has no place at sea...or anywhere for that matter, but.....well words fail me, I tell my cadets......at the end of the day it's your TRB, your career, your future, I will help and guide and ocasionally prod, however I refuse to chase and molly coddle and make sure you are doing your work, I have a **** load of my own to be getting on with, you are (generally) big boys and girls, you have fought hard to get a place and are entering a career and a way of life, this is not a 9-5 job despite the IMO trying to make it so!
                      Trust me I'm a Chief.

                      Views expressed by me are mine and mine alone.
                      Yes I work for the big blue canoe company.
                      No I do not report things from here to them as they are quite able to come and read this stuff for themselves.


                      Twitter:- @DeeChief

                      Comment

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