Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

RMT backs leaving the EU

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    For someone who doesn't like the place he seems unable to leave.
    io parlo morse

    Comment


    • #47
      Whilst I agree with the general point of S4s post I also agree that the condescending tone in which it is made does the argument no favours (whatever the reasons or provocation for doing so).

      On the wider point I think calling some of the posts on this thread "bullying" is a bit of a stretch. There are certainly people being short with others which in my opinion is unnecessary, although given the majority of the posts made by the OP that I've seen have been either bashing the EU or being rude to others on the same subject, its hardly surprising the reaction the post got. Which is a shame as I think the EU referendum warrants a sensible debate which we don't really seem to have had on here yet.

      Oh and on a wider note there's nothing worse on forums than people going in the huff and publicly asking for their account to be deleted. If you want your account deleted PM an administrator and I'm sure they will be happy to oblige. I visit a few forums and whenever someone asks publicly it always just seems like a bit of attention seeking tbh. You could always just stop visiting. Whether you still have an account is really here nor there. Theres some forums I used to go on that I no longer do for whatever reason but I never bothered to get the account deleted, what's the point?

      Comment


      • #48
        You're right, I was out of line with the poppets etc, I saw red when he called me sweetheart. My apologies to all involved.

        Size4riggerboots

        Moderator
        Blog tWitterings Flickr Tumblr Faceache

        Comment


        • #49
          It is a bit of a joke these days - the main reason I don't write much anymore.
          Cruise ship Captain with experience on-board Passenger Vessels ranging from 5500-150000 GRT.

          Comment


          • #50
            The current situation isn’t helped by the discriminatory tax system which means that citizens of almost every other European country can work in the UK sector tax free, but people from the UK are fully taxed. Because they can work tax free, it means they can afford to drop their wage demands lower than a local but still take home the same money. That in addition to their much lower cost of living.

            What could be done is that the all double tax treaties with other countries have clauses exempting seafarers inserted meaning everyone (regardless of nationality or residence) working offshore in the UK sector has to pay UK tax. That way the playing field is somewhat fairer for the UK seafarers to compete, as everyone would be subject to the same tax deductions from salary.

            Before people say what about UK seafarers earning tax free money in other European offshore sectors, I’d like to see figures of how many UK nationals there are working offshore in likes of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania or Croatia. I have a funny feeling the answer would be very low if not zero.

            As for the non-EEA nationals such as Filipinos working on vessels on long term charter in the UK sector, the government should extend UK employment law to all vessels that work there continually, so that seaman’s transit visa are no longer the only bit of paper they need, and nobody can be employed on less than national minimum wage.

            Comment


            • #51
              Very interesting, I'm not that up on Uk tax, but I do know airline crew, those who fly from the CI for instance and live in the CI are having to pay UK tax on their earnings because they fly to the UK. It's this 90 day rule and 182 day thing. Think they then have to go through the double taxation bit too, as here you are taxed on worldwide income, nightmare!
              Just made me wonder why it doesn't apply to seafarers. I'm guessing if they are offshore and spend less than 90 days in the UK they are exempt.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Midge View Post
                Very interesting, I'm not that up on Uk tax, but I do know airline crew, those who fly from the CI for instance and live in the CI are having to pay UK tax on their earnings because they fly to the UK. It's this 90 day rule and 182 day thing. Think they then have to go through the double taxation bit too, as here you are taxed on worldwide income, nightmare!
                Just made me wonder why it doesn't apply to seafarers. I'm guessing if they are offshore and spend less than 90 days in the UK they are exempt.
                Not only do a lot of the non-UK European nationals that come to work on ships in the UK sector take our jobs (cue South Park jokes), they also pay no UK tax, they fly in and out spending little of their wages in the UK, so are of very little economic benefit to the country.

                The question of whether these people should be working in the UK sectors is a different barrel of fish altogether. But at the very least the law should be changed so that they have to pay full income tax and national insurance to the UK government, to achieve such, double taxation treaties need to be changed so that European Seafarers who are citizens/resident of other European countries cannot offset any tax owed to the UK government with Tax paid in their home country, as most other European countries allow their seamen to claim their tax back, hence they can work in the UK sector tax free.

                The current tax set up in the UK sector discriminatory against UK nationals, and is rigged in the favour of other European countries.

                Comment


                • #53
                  When I was at sea we paid the same tax as shore dwellers. The fact that we spent anything up to 8 months away from the UK made no difference.
                  io parlo morse

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by marlinspike View Post
                    Not only do a lot of the non-UK European nationals that come to work on ships in the UK sector take our jobs (cue South Park jokes), they also pay no UK tax, they fly in and out spending little of their wages in the UK, so are of very little economic benefit to the country.

                    The argument could reasonably be made that the jobs only exist at a lower wage point than UK seafarers are willing/able to accept, and so the derivitive tax question is irrelevant.

                    The companies that employ them then pay corporation tax, plus other outgoings to the exchequer. They would likely argue that increasing the tax burden on their employees would diminish their ability to operate, and so reduce the income to the UK.

                    More than 2 sides to this argument.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Also, the decimation of the UK seafarer occurred well before the EU had an influence on the UK labour market.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by condeh View Post
                        The argument could reasonably be made that the jobs only exist at a lower wage point than UK seafarers are willing/able to accept, and so the derivitive tax question is irrelevant.

                        The companies that employ them then pay corporation tax, plus other outgoings to the exchequer. They would likely argue that increasing the tax burden on their employees would diminish their ability to operate, and so reduce the income to the UK.

                        More than 2 sides to this argument.
                        The jobs would still be there, poland or no poland.

                        Take a glance at the totally Bolshevik Norwegian sector who in all the peace and EU unity spunk all their jobs off to cheap labour from former commie countries or the Philippines... oh wait.. they don't... some bolshevisk they are...

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          That could be true, free movement of EU people began in 1992, Maastricht treaty but it also featured in the 1957 Treaty of Rome when it was the EEC which Britain joined in 1973.

                          When did the British MN start its decline?
                          Former TH cadet with experience of cruise ships, buoy tenders, research ships and oil tankers

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Probably never recovered from the losses after WW2. But we gave up manufacturering and industry general when Mrs Thatcher said we're a service economy. Many firms in this country have always been keen to paid low wages and little or no tax

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Matt247 View Post
                              Probably never recovered from the losses after WW2. But we gave up manufacturering and industry general when Mrs Thatcher said we're a service economy. Many firms in this country have always been keen to paid low wages and little or no tax
                              It happened long before Thatcher

                              http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...shall_01.shtml
                              io parlo morse

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by marlinspike View Post
                                The jobs would still be there, poland or no poland.

                                Take a glance at the totally Bolshevik Norwegian sector who in all the peace and EU unity spunk all their jobs off to cheap labour from former commie countries or the Philippines... oh wait.. they don't... some bolshevisk they are...
                                Lets not do the whole comparing Norwegian offshore sector to the UK/maritime industry in general. An oil industry which can generate the world's largest sovereign wealth fund should be regarded as the exception rather than the rule.

                                My point was the jobs *may* not be there as the companies cannot generate the 'required' profits when paying wages expected by UK seafarers.

                                Blaming the EU/Poland/cheap labour is facile.

                                According to Gov't figures, the UK fleet declined from 22% of the world fleet to 8% between 1948 & 1970. (Clue, before the 'EU Problem')
                                The fleet then declined a further 40% between 1975 & 1982. Officer figures fell by similar %'age.

                                Just a bit more data to illustrate my point. EU data shows that Norway & Poland have seen a reduction in officer trainees between 2006-2008, at the same time the UK showed an increase of almost 100% between 2000 & 2009.

                                So, please, lets not try to make a square peg fit a round hole.

                                If you want to propose protectionist measures, that is totally OK, but please don't make out that the EU is a problem here. I would suggest a finger is better aimed at STCW regulations, or a SMART scheme which incentives training but not employment. (Another clue - the piss-poor implementation of the SMART scheme is down to our own politicians, a point made in this thread many times. Leaving the EU will leave the same people actually making decisions. I give you a lovely quote from the Wikipedia of the current 'Shipping Minister' : "
                                "I fly from Leeds/Bradford to Brussels and we get a set fee of around ?500, but if I buy a cheaper ticket, economy class for about ?160 and ?250, I can pocket the difference and, as a capitalist, also as a British Conservative, I see it as a challenge to buy cheap tickets and make some profit on the system"


                                p.s. please don't try to determine my voting direction based on these posts. I am not necessarily pro-EU or anti-EU. I am anti-nonsense.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X