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  • Foreign Licenses

    I'm increasingly becoming aware of the cheaper foreign labour entering British waters and replacing British Officers,its a fact that cannot be changed due to gutless greedy politicians and our own ability to legislate ourselves out of being cost effective.

    My question is,what is to stop a British Officer dumping the MCA merry go round of beaurocracy and continue on training in a foreign country where training costs and accomodation are both cheaper and lets be honest these days just as good.

    Surely then the officer in question could apply for a CeC if needed in the UK to sail on the dwindling tonnage left flying the UK flag?

    I may have this completly wrong but some thoughts on the feasability of this would be welcome.

    Sensible answers please chaps.

  • #2
    Its an interesting idea. For example as far as I know in the Danish system you do all your theory as a cadet and get awarded further certificates simply based on seatime with no need to do any further exams. That'd be significantly nicer than the stress of doing further exams in this country, where if I'm perfectly honest I don't feel like I'm learning much of value anyway.

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    • #3
      I believe the Norwegian system is similar - An OOW can get a mates ticket with enough seatime and an endorsement from a master. No orals, no SQA's...
      Pointy bit is the front, blunt bit is the back... Simples!

      Will work for money/sea time.

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      • #4
        Same with the Dutch I think. It's not a bad system although I don't know how I'd feel about being a cadet for 5 to 7 years, it does seem to produce some very competent officers though going by the Danes I've sailed with.

        With regards to having a foreign ticket, wouldn't that mean working for the same salary as officers from the same country? Living in the UK on an Indian or Filipino wage would be pretty impossible.

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        • #5
          I'm not so sure,I believe some companies pay you by what residency you have.For example I have heard of some Indian gentlemen with British tickets who have a "residency" in the UK living like Gods out in India on UK salary.However the main point of argument is I believe that a CEC examination is a good bit easier than taking SQA exams and orals if you wanted the British ticket.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by MrStealth View Post
            I believe the Norwegian system is similar - A OOW can get a mates ticket with enough seatime and an endorsement from a master. No orals, no SQA's...
            This could be a better system tbh. Someone who has actually sailed with you has a much better idea of your competence than someone who sits across a desk from you for 45 minutes and asks you a series of random questions which if you are lucky enough to have studied what they feel like asking that day might make you look like a total genius, or if the inverse is true you might look like a total idiot even though you might actually be perfectly competent, just not prepared for the questions they have asked.

            Of course the master could just sign it because they are your mate and you've bought them the odd pint ashore. Or maybe some masters wouldn't want that responsibility of saying "yup, this guy knows what he is doing" anyway. No system is perfect I suppose.

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            • #7
              If I was doing it all again I'd just got to one of the Eastern European countries and buy the ticket or go to the likes of the Philippines and do a multiple choice exam! Instead I've been a dumb Brit and done it the hard way all for what? To Watch Asians and Eastern Europeans take over my job and now be unemployed!

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              • #8
                Although on the face of it things are pretty rough, don't forget that the UK Higher tickets are still (for how long I don't know) held in pretty high regard for worldwide shoreside jobs.
                Pilotage - It's just a controlled allision

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 5678 View Post
                  If I was doing it all again I'd just got to one of the Eastern European countries and buy the ticket or go to the likes of the Philippines and do a multiple choice exam! Instead I've been a dumb Brit and done it the hard way all for what? To Watch Asians and Eastern Europeans take over my job and now be unemployed!
                  I assume that is based on actual personal experience of the Philippines and Eastern European exam system and not just some racist bollocks that you heard at smoko once?
                  Go out, do stuff

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                  • #10
                    How are people actually examined in these countries? Does anyone on here know for definite how the system works in for example the Philippines, Vietnam, Poland etc etc.

                    Genuine question because as is alluded to above I've heard all the anecdotal stories about multiple choice exams etc but have no idea if this is actually true or not and how it compares to the British system.

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                    • #11
                      I don't know how they're examined but I do know that the Norwegian Shipowners Association sponsors 3 year degree courses at 3 universities over there

                      http://ntcmanila.com/cadet-program-detail.php?id=501
                      io parlo morse

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                      • #12
                        https://seamandaragat10.wordpress.co...res-in-marina/

                        Managed to find this blog account of going through the exam in the Philippines but nothing on any of the official websites. Looks as if the exam is a written only format of 20 subjects with a pass mark of 80 to 90% overall.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by EH75 View Post
                          How are people actually examined in these countries? Does anyone on here know for definite how the system works in for example the Philippines, Vietnam, Poland etc etc.

                          Genuine question because as is alluded to above I've heard all the anecdotal stories about multiple choice exams etc but have no idea if this is actually true or not and how it compares to the British system.
                          It's about as true as Cadbury banning Easter. There were issues in the past, but they have been pretty much resolved.

                          In contrast we recently had a thread on here were someone was complaining about a fellow (British) cadet who was cheating in every exam.

                          The complacency that comes with the idea that British officers are somehow inherently better than everyone else is very dangerous, because shipowners are certainly starting to question that view.
                          Go out, do stuff

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                          • #14
                            There are many countries out there with questionable/corrupt certification systems. I sailed with crew from Georgia and Azerbaijan who readily admitted their certificates were bought and held the entire concept of training in contempt. Ironically they were still safer than a lot of the Eastern Europeans I worked with.

                            I think the British system is better than other countries. I find it absurd that a cadet can 'qualify' as Master during their training (pending the required seatime). I know one individual who undertook the Danish dual education system and was 'qualified' on paper as Master and Chief Engineer (pending required seatime for each discipline). Seriously? People come from all over the world at great expense to gain a British certificate and this alone is evidence our qualifications are in the higher tier.

                            Shipowners, as usual, are incapable of making a reasonable judgement on this. They have only become safer recently due to legislation forced on them from above (Loadline, ISM, SOLAS etc...) and would still be operating death ships with dangerous crews if they could get away with it.

                            The 'who is better' argument is only a small part of this. I would personally rather work with Brits than a bunch of greedy ex-communists with no sense of humour. The British have been at sea for 100's of years and have a nautical heritage far beyond all the 'new' countries who are simply in it for the money. We will still be at sea in 100's of years to come. The newcomers will not - We will prevail.

                            Remember that we are the future custodians of this industry: It is about time we started sticking up for ourselves rather than running our colleagues and certification system down. We are not equal to all the nonsense countries.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WesternStar View Post
                              I think the British system is better than other countries. I find it absurd that a cadet can 'qualify' as Master during their training (pending the required seatime). I know one individual who undertook the Danish dual education system and was 'qualified' on paper as Master and Chief Engineer (pending required seatime for each discipline). Seriously? People come from all over the world at great expense to gain a British certificate and this alone is evidence our qualifications are in the higher tier.
                              So... Exactly like the SQA exemptions the MCA gives to cadets studying either an FdSc or Bsc?
                              Pointy bit is the front, blunt bit is the back... Simples!

                              Will work for money/sea time.

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