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Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

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  • Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

    These are the results of a survey Nautilus UK carried out on more than 260 cadets, a quarter of all cadets in the UK and Ireland, comprising of 25 questions about their training and pay.

    Key Findings:
    Do you think cadets should be paid in line with the National Minimum Wage for the work they carry out onboard?
    Yes:78% No:14% Don't know:8%

    Do you think cadet's salaries should be linked to increases awarded to other officers employed by the company?
    Yes:75% No:13% Don't know:12%

    Does your company provide such a link?
    Yes:9% No:52% Don't know:39%

    Do you think that all cadets should earn leave at a rate of no less than 8 days per month including time at college? In addition, should 4 weeks paid annual leave be payable to all cadets?
    Yes:73% No:20% Don't know:7%

    Does your company provide anything similar?
    Yes:21% No:46% Don't know:33%

    Do you think that whilst at college cadets should be provided with with accomodation of a good standard at no charge?
    Yes:84% No:12% Don't know:5%

    Do you think that whilst attending college, cadets should be paid a daily subsistence allowance to cover food and incidental expenditure of at least ?25 per day?
    Yes:79% No:18% Don't know:3%

    Does your company provide anything similar?
    Yes:17% No:69% Don't know:14%

    Do you think that college and exam fees should be paid by the company?
    Yes:98% No:1% Don't know:1%

    Does your company provide anything similar?
    Yes:87% No:7% Don't know:6%

    Do you think that the company should reimburse all travel costs to and from college at the start and end of each college term and/or semester?
    Yes:96% No:2% Don't know:2%

    Do you think cadets should be allowed paid leave for a family problem or a medical problem?
    Yes:96% No:3% Don't know:3%

    Does your company provide anything similar?
    Yes:35% No:13% Don't know:52%

    How do you rate the quality of your training so far at college?
    Good:49% Adequate:37% Poor:13%

    How do you rate the quality of your training so far at sea?
    Good:44% Adequate:36% Poor:14% N/a:6%

    Are you optimistic about your future career and employment prospects?
    Yes:75% No:18% Don't know:7%


    General quotes from the article:

    "the best paid cadets are recieving salaries more than twice that of the lowest paid."
    "Many cadet said they wanted a standardised rate"
    "I have to work over 10 hours a week to supplement my trainee allowance, as I wouldn't be able to survive otherwise."
    "complained about the way in which some companies pay trainee's accommodation fees at college whilst other cadets have to meet these costs out of their salary."
    "There were also complaints about companies being able to demand up to ?3,000 compensation if cadets decide to terminate their training, as well as complaints about late payments"
    "Frequent complaints about the state of their accommodation and leisure facilities."
    "Several cadets suggested the first phase of college training should be shorter, to give an early opportunity to go to sea. ' seatime is essential in deciding if a career at sea is right for you and therefore it would be better to have a few weeks experienceat sea before wasting months at college' one explained. Another added: 'I feel this would enable cadets to have a better understanding of all the basic subjects taught in classes.'"
    "Some cadets complained that too much of their seatime had been spent on mundane tasks such as gangway watch or chipping and painting."
    "A common complaint was a lack of understanding or support for training from foreign officers. Some cadets said they had been the only UK citizen onboard their ships, some said they had been ignored by the foreign officers, and others told of hoe English was not spoken in their workplace."

    I highlighted the bit about earlier sea time as I found this to be particularly interesting, I personally don't share that view, as I'd like to have a good knowlege about the basics of what I'm doing; rather than standing around like a vegetable which may in turn put people off.

    Just a few points from the article that may be of interest.
    Your personal comments from current cadets will also be of great interest, as some threads have raised similar issues.
    You can trust me,
    I'm a doctor.

  • #2
    Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

    Originally posted by WillB a-e

    I highlighted the bit about earlier sea time as I found this to be particularly interesting, I personally don't share that view, as I'd like to have a good knowlege about the basics of what I'm doing; rather than standing around like a vegetable which may in turn put people off.
    I'm guessing you've not been to sea yet then?! You never stand around like a lemon! You're an engine cadet so I can see that maybe it would be better for you guys to get a bit more classroom training under your belt first, but as a deckies, I think we would benefit from getting a shortish sea phase in sooner than 5 months down the line from starting. Some people find that when they get to sea it's not how they imagined, or they find themselves being hideously ill (I know of one guy who had to be med-evaced off the ship after two weeks cos he was so ill, he left the course and therefore wasted the previous 5 months of classroom stuff). Better to find out if it suits you sooner rather than later.

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    • #3
      Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

      You guessed correctly, atleast not to work
      I can understand that you could (perhaps more so for deck) gain the required basic skills to always be doing things; however I don't think the 'induction sea phase' should really be more than 2 months, maybe only 1.
      That would give many a good chance to feel ill if they were going to suffer unnaturally badly , and also getting the experience of life aboard ship. But then return for the same total length of college time (maybe more to make up for the focussed teaching and disruption just before going on the induction trip) and then return to the normal cadetship routine, leading to a longer overall cadetship.
      As you may have noticed by thinking about what you have said I've totally jumped opinions ; but then I'm personally happy either way as I know I don't get sea sick badly and have researched this for some time.
      You can trust me,
      I'm a doctor.

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      • #4
        Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

        Or just bring back trial trips, might be a better idea - I can't see stretching the cadetship going down well.
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        • #5
          Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

          Without wishing to sound (as I no doubt will) a huge high handed twat. Is it not possible to gain a good idea of what life is like by simply researching well?? I like to think I've got a good idea what's instore for me by trawling the internet and reading the Telegraph dad gets looking for anything related to general life at sea.
          You can trust me,
          I'm a doctor.

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          • #6
            Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

            I think the Nautilus Telegraph should be mandatory reading, it does give a good general idea about "the industry". I agree with you about research, but then people on this site are generally motivated to do some research, otherwise they wouldn't be here. I'm sure many jump in without knowing what's going to happen.
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            • #7
              Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

              I couldn't understand how someone could just jump into something without having a good look at what it entails, particularly something like this where it clearly is a change of life, but then with modern times being as they are many may feel they can get a free degree and don't realise they have to do considerable sea time to get it.

              I have now been so won over by the idea of 'trial/induction' sea phases a month after starting that when I join Nautilus I'll write to them proposing it to be one of their 'reactions' to this survey.
              -although I do still think that maybe in the case of engineers/ETO's that they may still need to have a considerable time at college before being able to enter the big wide world!-
              You can trust me,
              I'm a doctor.

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              • #8
                Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                I don't think it needs to be too "department-focused", just a week or two on a ship, observing, doing simple things with each department, even spending some time with the hotel staff on passenger ships and so on, just to get a feel for "life on board". I think it is this, rather than anything too job-specific, that causes the most problems.
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                Hello! I'm Chris. I'm away a lot so I'm sorry if it takes me a while to reply to messages, but I promise I'll get back to everyone. If it's urgent, please email me directly at [email protected].

                Need books, Flip Cards or chartwork instruments? Visit SailorShop.co.uk!

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                • #9
                  Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                  Oh my word...... how things change, you are all comming to sea way earlier than I did and I went to sea befoer the people before me.......ermmm I should explain....

                  The year before I started this was the plan.......(for engineers)
                  2 years OND in college
                  1 year at sea
                  1 year in college HND

                  Then I went to sea..
                  1 year OND in college
                  1 year at sea
                  2 years in college HND

                  and now.....lord knows, but very different, so shhhhhhhh you are comming to sea earlier

                  Sea training ships are good on paper, the yanks use them BUT it relies ona good union and a government that understands the importance of a maritime industry and is willing to co-pay for it. Here it is much less unionised (trust me you wouldnt want thier system) and as such market forces come into play, in this case the market is the companies ans they need people NOW or sooner if possible.

                  No one ever gets to stand around like a spare part unless they arent that bright, cos enyone can see stuff needs to be done or will ask "what next" and " can I help or fetch " ...this all from a bloke who was officially "bloody useless" so there is hope for you all
                  Trust me I'm a Chief.

                  Views expressed by me are mine and mine alone.
                  Yes I work for the big blue canoe company.
                  No I do not report things from here to them as they are quite able to come and read this stuff for themselves.


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                  • #10
                    Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                    I was thinking of maybe a month onboard to get a good feel for being away and the 'way of life', But after say two months at college then maybe both disiplines will have enough knowlege to be always doing something useful for that time. Although I was worried that it could simply make a lower form of cadet who's possible mundane tasks could put people off.

                    would this require specific training ships, why not just have it as an earlier sea phase with an emphasis on just giving an experience to help people make good judgement.

                    Back to the survey, a running theme does seem to be that people want companies to in effect pay for everything in their training at a set rate across companies; is this a reasonable ask or just wishful thinking??
                    You can trust me,
                    I'm a doctor.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                      I think sponsorship rates and "who pays for what" should be clear before application, after that people know what they're getting themselves in to so there's no sense moaning about the lot that you chose for yourself. A minimum total "compensation" package, taking into account the monetary value of allowance/accommodation etc would be beneficial, but again, you go for the company that's right for you.
                      sigpic
                      Hello! I'm Chris. I'm away a lot so I'm sorry if it takes me a while to reply to messages, but I promise I'll get back to everyone. If it's urgent, please email me directly at [email protected].

                      Need books, Flip Cards or chartwork instruments? Visit SailorShop.co.uk!

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                      • #12
                        Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                        I've been quite lucky with my company sending me on a observer trip for two weeks which helped me a lot in my decision to pursue this career. I think its a really good idea but because im going offshore its easier for company's in that sector to do it. Oh and by the way they always had me doing something and I haven't been to college yet.
                        Take me drunk im home.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Nautilus UK Survey of Cadets in the Telegraph

                          I read this a few days ago...I couldn't really comment on it as I'm staying at home, but I think it's a bit ridiculous the prices students have to pay for the accommodation, now that I've had a look at where they're staying.
                          "Did I tell you about my theory about sailors? Sailors are the finest people in the world."

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