Cruiseships - WHY ?

[LeeClarke83]

Ok first of all am writing this not as a company Training officer but as a certified CM... I worked on cruise ships and the only thing I found beneficial was the socialising so question is why do cadets want to get on board these vessels where its all about the cargo... The MCA are not going to ask you about class 1 vessels just cause you have been on them... you need to know and UNDERSTAND and demonstrate IMDG Loading, Grain, Bulk, Containerised and the list goes on.... GET ON CARGO VESSELS AND LEAVE CRUISE TILL YOUR QUILIFIED !!! apologies rant over lol

[endure]

They think it's all totty and gin and tonics with the Captain

[Midge]

Well not surprising if what most people see on TV is cruise ships, crisp white uniforms, dinner at the Captains table, trips to pretty places all over the world. Plus the attractive looking dancers etc etc etc
You dont get many documentaries on cargo ships, and the rest on mainstream TV. Some may have been on cruises in the past and that's what has sparked an interest.
Mine likes the ships that do jobs, so to speak, he thought he'd hate cruise ships, but actually he found the one he went on has been the best so far re crew and the training he had. He had thought it might be all passenger orientated but it wasn't he didn't see them that much, when he did they wanted to know what his stripe was. One passenger chatted to him he was ex MN he enjoyed that. He did get to go sightseeing a few times too. He still likes ships that do jobs though!
If the industry promoted what it does and all of the kind of ships that it operates and why shipping is important to young people perhaps more would aspire to other sectors. In reality there is little out there to inform them.
At the end of the day the sector that actually employs British seafarers is the one that is the most attractive, from my mum only perspective ( after the Tides thread I'm being careful) from what I've read on here and elsewhere there are fewer jobs on certain types or none at all.

[bridgemonkey]

Cadets view cruise ships as a good time job. I also think there is a certain aspect of seeing all the jobs for cruise ships advertised which makes it seem an attractive proposition to go into whereas the complete lack of jobs there are at the minute for a British OOW on containers or bulkers? Pretty much every job advertised at the minute is for an experienced DPO or for guys with cruise experience (at least on the deck side of things...).

[HarmlessWeasel]

To be fair, we also have to understand the relevant regulations and operations of passenger vessels of various varieties. As a container cadet, I have the same amount of understanding of tanker operations as any cruise cadet, and the same goes for offshore operations. Whichever ships a cadet goes on, there will be many more types that we don't go on and will have to learn the operations side academically rather than from first hand experience.

Just playing devil's advocate

[EH75]

Yeah tbh just because you do your cadetship on a cargo vessel doesn't guarantee that you are going to get great training. I did my cadetship on containers and the training wasn't brilliant. Currently work on cruise and reckon I would've had much better training with the company that currently employ me that the experience I did have. I am glad I did it though because at least now I know there are worse places I could be working. Some of the guys that were company cadets and have only ever worked on cruise maybe don't appreciate this as much.

[Dovestor]

There are also many more roles on a cruise ship, so it is probably easier to hear stories of how a beautician/ bartender/ photographer whatever travelled the world working on cruise ships, good chance people think, ooh if they enjoy it, I bet I would. They do a little research, find out you can be an officer and apply. My facebook page is constantly showing me images of croupiers, new and old who are or have at some point been on cruise ships, wonderful places around the globe, parties, shore leave and if I were tempted by that life I'd choose cruise liners... I could apply for a 6 month contract be there for the next intake no problem (assuming all goes well with the ENG1). I'm with Lee on that one, I'd prefer to go for for LPG/Chemical tankers or somethng similar and if I feel the need later in life then change to cruises

[agibbs98]

The cruise cadets I knew were incredibly hot on their stuff, their training was second to none aboard compared to everyone elses I've heard of - that's a good thing for cadets.

I know people who did their cadetships on cargo and have now gone cruise, and people that did cadetships on cruises and are now sailing as high ranks in RORO and oil majors. All four of my senior chief engineers in my company started on cargo, went to cruises, retired to ROPAX.

I've never heard a bad thing from the guys who worked or trained on cruise ships, life was more or less what they expected, because unless you're an idiot you're not gonna be expecting a party life. You're expecting a hard working life with a higher range of people to hang out with off watch and a nicer bar than a cargo ship.

I think it's a fairly bitter opinion that has little evidential basis, a ship is a ship and people would be earning MUCH less than others if they weren't working as hard.

[alistairuk]

Ok first of all am writing this not as a company Training officer but as a certified CM... I worked on cruise ships and the only thing I found beneficial was the socialising so question is why do cadets want to get on board these vessels where its all about the cargo... The MCA are not going to ask you about class 1 vessels just cause you have been on them... you need to know and UNDERSTAND and demonstrate IMDG Loading, Grain, Bulk, Containerised and the list goes on.... GET ON CARGO VESSELS AND LEAVE CRUISE TILL YOUR QUILIFIED !!! apologies rant over lol

I disagree on several points;

Firstly I don't think "it's all about the cargo" and while yes there are some numpties that apply because they've been on a cruise ship / seen the love boat / various advertising propaganda for the evil empire and seen a bunch of "officers" / hotel managers swanning around wearing whites drinking cocktails and have no idea what the job actually involves - but I reckon these are the minority - quickly found out during application and very few (if any) of them are actually accepted as cadets by the cruise lines.

I've been with 3 separate cruise lines and as cadets / junior officers the involvement with the cargo was limited to occasionally speaking to them in passing, asking them to shift out the way - as they always seem to setup sun beds below the ONLY lifeboat you're lowering or helping them in / out of tenders and occasionally at formal night if we couldn't come up with an eligible excuse to avoid it.

At the end of the day, there's a reason that most of the cruise lines gave all the hotel managers and in some cases anyone that speaks english onboard nice white uniforms - so we wouldn't have to socialise with the cargo to get the all important "officer presence" score on the CSQ forms - although I love that crap weather & crap ports of call is our fault!

From a cadet perspective - most of the cruise lines will aim to employ the cadet on completion of the cadetship - the same unfortunately can't be said for the majority of the cargo fleets who in many cases "don't employ british officers". Most cruise ships have adequate numbers of officers & deck / engine crew members to be able to train the cadets properly, so that the officers actually take an interest in the cadets training and help them along. The working language usually always is English - the mix of nationalities means that English certainly is used onboard and most require English to be spoken on the bridge / ecr since it's all recorded - look at the number of cadets that complain that no one speaks english on board their vessels despite it being the working language. Add to that the fact there is a reasonable sized number of deck / engine crew also means that the cadets actually get to do work on board and aren't simply stuck guarding the gangway for their entire cadetship (there's a separate department to do that) - you don't see many (in fact I don't think I've came across any) cadets on cruise ships complaining about their TRB / training officer / not getting enough sea time.

As HarmlessWeasel already said above; you have to know the various regulations and where to find them for every type of ship out there - as technically you can be asked about them even if you've never seen one and have no intention of ever going near one regardless of what part of the industry you work in. There's people who spend their entire cadetship bobbing up and down in the north sea on supply boats - who are still expected to know all about the other types of ship. The Orals Examiners at OOW level are perfectly happy if you know the academic side and at least can point to the regulations when it comes to carrying grain / IMDG / containers / oil / whatever - and from a practical point of view if you were to ever go work on those types of ship you would find out pretty quickly.

As for the MCA examinations - my OOW orals concentrated on navigation, safety (LSA & FFA) and weather - the only slightly cargo related question that came up was what is a masons hydrometer, what does it do and if you've loaded a cargo in XXX and your going to YYY what would it tell you. True, others in my group were quizzed on general cargo, but it's all down to the examiner & luck really.

Although it's very hypocritical of me to say so (I have only ever worked on cruise ships & have no intention of ever working on a cargo ship); I will agree that certainly on paper from a training perspective it's probably best to get a wide appreciation of the industry as theoretical knowledge isn't really a substitute for practical experience. But then again, if you have no inclination to ever work in the cargo side of the industry....

[Clanky]

I definitely wouldn't recommend a cruise ship cadetship for engineers, but that said, I have met excruise ship engine cadets who were very good.

I do think that cruise ship deck cadets get some of the best training around at the moment, in and out of port almost every day and loads of safety gear to look after, but for me engine cadets spend too much time learning how to be a junior watchkeeper, checking swimming pool chlorine levels and toilet vacuum pumps rather than gaining a thorough understanding of the operation of the engine room.

As for why they are attracted to it, I think there is a perceived element of prestige in being an officer on a cruise ship which isn't there on cargo ships.

[Lewis]

I don't think this is a problem just in our industry. I managed a bar before and we got a lot of folks who thought they would enjoy working in a bar. Funnily enough working in a bar is not as fun as drinking in a bar.

[EH75]

Ha that's quite a good analogy actually.

[BMcGrath]

I don't think this is a problem just in our industry. I managed a bar before and we got a lot of folks who thought they would enjoy working in a bar. Funnily enough working in a bar is not as fun as drinking in a bar.

I can confirm this haha, its all fun and games until the majority of the customers are p***** out their heads.

[GuinnessMan]

To be honest, I've always said that you're better off getting yourself onto tankers, gas ones preferably or any tanker for your cadetship (not that cruise is rubbish or anything).

Some of the best employers out there are the oil majors and if you already have that tanker experience that it gives you that little bit more when it comes to the paper sifting part of the recruitment process.

If you don't like tankers, then it's much easier to shift away to something else than it is to get back in to tankers...

[Dannyboy14]

Speaking to a couple of engineering cadets who have cruises on my intake, a few of them went down that route because they are on set shift patterns and can get ashore more than the deck side. Even a couple on cargo/offshore and bulkers have said the same.