Cadets training on board

[CompetentSailor]

Hi again everyone, I was just wondering about the different ways in which everyone trains first trip cadets on board.

I personally had quite a hard time on board, not alot of help from any of the engineers, this i think came down to numbers of things from language barriers, bad/clash of personalities and i personally think that they may not have known some of the stuff. If i wanted to know something i had to find it out using manuals, textbooks and internet.

I believe this has served me well right enough, and as engineer that's what we have to do when we qualify.

How does everyone else treat their first trip cadets ? And what sort of beneficial tasks can they be given ?

The guys we have on board are motivated enough, but where do you start lol ?

Also what wild goose chases have you sent them on, or if you are a cadet/when your were, what happened to you ?

just some light discussion

[alistairuk]

When they come onboard, their told to produce a task plan (learning plan / whatever you want to call it) which states on a weekly basis, what tasks they plan to complete, reports they intend to write and which rules they intend to learn that week.

If their not first trip, some of them are rather shocked when they realise they have 100+ tasks and 20 rules to learn in their remaining 12 weeks of sea time!

It’s then they’re responsibility to arrange with the various officers to be able to carry out the tasks in addition to “normal work” assigned by their DSTO (if they’re first trip they’ll spend a lot of time with the bosun and safety AB’s, if they’re not first trip they’ll spend a couple of weeks with bosun & safety AB’s until they know the ship, then they usually get assigned watches).

There progress is checked usually weekly to see how they’re doing relative to their plan and what changes they’ve made to it as a result of not doing things when they planned to do it.

Needless to say, they have to be fairly motivated to put the effort in, if they’re not motivated, generally there is some encouragement (read “punishment”) the first few times then we tend to give up on them. (So far that’s only applied to 1 or 2 of them).

There’s different way’s of doing it - any new cadets joining should have a DVD with them from the MNTB “Guidance for Shipboard Training Officers” (or something like that) which explains what the MNTB recommend happens onboard in a 30 minute video.

This of course is the deckies - we rarely have british engineering cadets and when we did, I have no idea what they did.

[Clanky]

Start them off on daywork for a week or so until they get used to the ship, then either stick them on watch or have them shadowing the duty engineer.

Obviously concentrate on the safety and familiarisation tasks first, but most of the workbooks have the tasks which are expected to be completed in the first trip highlighted.

Alistair is right in that the cadets themselves need to take some responsibility for their own training, but with engine cadets some of the jobs only happen occasionally so you need to make sure that they know when something is happening that they need to be involved in.

You may also have to consider swapping them onto different watches to see different tasks such as cooling water tests, jacket water tests, boiler soot blowing, etc.

[Chiefy]

Engineers on watches? Lordy lord how the other half live

Get them familiarised and then off with duty cutie doing ouyside logs and noon counters. Also have 1 on each and every standby as it will be a bread and butter thing they do. Give them time to do reports trb stuff but I am afraid I wont chase them too much. It is thier cadetship and they know what wants done.

Sign whenever they remember to bring the reports and books to me. Again I wont chase them for it. I will however write a bad report for lack of progress etc especially when I can see them "tossing it off".......we can only guide them so far.

Sorry if this seems harsh but they have responsibilities of thier own and need to get to grips sooner rather than later.

[YoungMariner]

There are so many variables, and not every officer is skilled in or wants to train cadets. The ideal match is a motivated cadet and a motivated and experienced officer. Fairly recently qualified officers through the British system tend to be great for training up new cadets as they know the system inside out, but its good to get on watch with an experienced and confident officer who can let the cadet make mistakes within limits and learn through experience.

I had a mixed cadetship working on primarily foreign crewed ships, but filled in the gaps after I qualified as a 4th Officer on cruise ships with good mentoring.

There is no easy answer, but the good companies tend to have better systems in place to help train cadets.

[CompetentSailor]

I think if the cadets were coming up to get ready for their orals, i would be more help to them.

i also find it difficult being 21 and these guys are 19/20, trying get them to do reports, i've been getting at them a bit, but i feel ive became to much of a friend to them, trying to find that balance between being a good guy and being the officer in charge is difficult, i dont want them to think im just on power trip and boss them about, but i dont want to be too relaxed with the guys.

I've given them a helping hand, i've given them 7/8 systems to learn, trace out and write a report on, they have managed 3 poor reports in 2 weeks, but they keep saying "i'm gonna do it tonight".

They do seem motivated, but i dont think they understand the importance of having a good Workbook/portfolio.

i've also told them i wont sign anything till i see at least somthing in the workbook that shows they understand the systems.

I'll keep trying, not going to give up, but im running out of ideas.

I remember when i was a cadet, at the end of the trip i got an 'Electricity Bill' for like ?200, everyone kidding on that you got charged for electricity while on board, anyone else get anything like this ?

[YoungMariner]

I also often came across cadets older then me when I was a 3rd Officer, and yes it takes time to build up the balance and confidence. However, I perturbed why the Chief of 2nd Engineer isn't on the case with them?

[GuinnessMan]

Engineers on watches? Lordy lord how the other half live

Get them familiarised and then off with duty cutie doing ouyside logs and noon counters. Also have 1 on each and every standby as it will be a bread and butter thing they do. Give them time to do reports trb stuff but I am afraid I wont chase them too much. It is thier cadetship and they know what wants done.

Sign whenever they remember to bring the reports and books to me. Again I wont chase them for it. I will however write a bad report for lack of progress etc especially when I can see them "tossing it off".......we can only guide them so far.

Sorry if this seems harsh but they have responsibilities of thier own and need to get to grips sooner rather than later.

I remember having a similar conversation with AJ, that the responsibility for a cadet's training lies with the cadet. Folks are busy and arn't inclined to chase cadets around for reports and signing off their TRB's and what not...

[Clanky]

On ships were I have been the DSTO for engine cadets I have set aside an hour a week to review their portfolio, sign stuff off and hear what they have planned for the next week.

Sometimes this is in the ECR during the working day and sometimes it's in the messroom or on the bridge in the evening with a cup of tea, I figure an hour a week of my time is not too much to set aside to give someone a little help.

[Chiefy]

Sorry dont miss understand ms...I am more than heppy to help and to teach but it has to be reciprocated. I will not just give and give and give.

Currently have a cadet who k have chased endlessly and he isnt really responding. This is a shame but will be reflected in his report I can / we can only do so much as seniors after that its up to the gadget them self. ......

[cableguy]

The last time I sailed with cadets the junior deck officers (including myself as 2/O) set up our own system.

Each of us three junior officers had one cadet each (the numbers worked out well). To start with we spent the first week with them ensuring they got to know the vessel, including all LSA and FFA (this would in fact involve sending them to other people as well as doing things with us).

The first trip ones then spent most of their time with the bosun for the next month or so, but also did some time with their designated officer. The more experienced cadets stayed with their assigned officer and assisted with anything from LSA and FFA routines to chart corrections and GMDSS routines and so on.

When we were at sea the cadet(s) in their last few trips would be expected to follow the same routine as the officer they were assigned too, so keeping the same watch and doing routines with the officer. The first trip cadets might stand a four hour watch per day, and the rest on deck, possibly adjusted to suit individual requirements.

Once a week we provided an afternoon of "classroom time" which was the time we used for RoR, Celestial Nav, Buoyage and other such areas. Then they would have one day set aside per week for doing reports, but we insisted on having evidence that this time was used correctly (keeping a good eye on the gangway log when in port also provided certain evidence :-D).

Finally we would change all the assignments around every few weeks, so that each cadet would get a taste of each of the set routines.

The C/O was not too interested in these things unfortunately, so when we were satisfied that things had been done correctly/learned correctly then we would give him a nudge to sign off any bits that we could not sign. Essentially our system was based around providing the best learning and experience providing system possible but we always told them there was one major rule in it: - if we put time in so did they, if they could not be bothered to do the work then we would not put the time in. This seemed to work and we always got good results from them.

With regard to the being their friend/"boss" I do understand what you are talking about. I think I always managed it pretty well, and when I told them something needed doing it got done, I still kept a little distance between myself and them. Power trip it may be called but I never wanted to find I had lost their respect because I was trying to be a mate to them.