EU Flags / Employment Legislation.

[PatrickW]

This is purely out of interest:
If a company is based in the EU and its vessels are on EU flags does that mean an application from a UK seafarer must be treated equally to that of a Polish seafarer or Swedish seafarer for example? So for instance there might a company based in Sweden that has crewing offices in Sweden, Poland and Romania, does being a member of the EU make you just as eligible for a position within that company as any other applicant from countries where there are crewing offices? If 'freedom of movement for workers' is a key policy for the EU then does this apply to shipping? So would it be illegal for a shipping company with EU flagged vessels to say 'We only recruit Polish or Greek seafarers' as we are all members of the EU therefore does this legislation not apply? My guess would be that it doesn't as flag states have different rules and I'm sure there's a million other bits of legislation my little cadet brain cannot comprehend!!
Just something I was wondering about for some bizarre reason! Cheers.

[pignutpilot]

This is purely out of interest:
If a company is based in the EU and its vessels are on EU flags does that mean an application from a UK seafarer must be treated equally to that of a Polish seafarer or Swedish seafarer for example? So for instance there might a company based in Sweden that has crewing offices in Sweden, Poland and Romania, does being a member of the EU make you just as eligible for a position within that company as any other applicant from countries where there are crewing offices? If 'freedom of movement for workers' is a key policy for the EU then does this apply to shipping? So would it be illegal for a shipping company with EU flagged vessels to say 'We only recruit Polish or Greek seafarers' as we are all members of the EU therefore does this legislation not apply? My guess would be that it doesn't as flag states have different rules and I'm sure there's a million other bits of legislation my little cadet brain cannot comprehend!!
Just something I was wondering about for some bizarre reason! Cheers.

Good question.

[Midge]

EU Free movement of workers

It also works the other way around too! I think there are more UK nationals working in other EU countries than there are the other way around, can't remember where I read it but was surprised at the time.

Every citizen of the Union may rely on Article 18 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU), which prohibits any discrimination on grounds of nationality, in all situations falling within the scope ratione materiae of European Union law, and those situations include the exercise of the freedom conferred by Article 21 TFEU to move and reside within the territory of the Member States

PART TWO
NON-DISCRIMINATION AND CITIZENSHIP OF THE UNION
Article 18
(ex Article 12 TEC)
Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to any special provisions

contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited.

The European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with the ordinary legislative procedure,
may adopt rules designed to prohibit such discrimination
21(ex Article 18 TEC)
1. Every citizen of the Union shall have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of
the Member States, subject to the limitations and conditions laid down in the Treaties and by the
measures adopted to give them effect.
2. If action by the Union should prove necessary to attain this objective and the Treaties have not
provided the necessary powers, the European Parliament and the Council, acting in accordance with
the ordinary legislative procedure, may adopt provisions with a view to facilitating the exercise of the
rights referred to in paragraph 1.
3. For the same purposes as those referred to in paragraph 1 and if the Treaties have not provided
the necessary powers, the Council, acting in accordance with a special legislative procedure, may adopt
measures concerning social security or social protection. The Council shall act unanimously after
consulting the European Parliament

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=457

and EU equality

http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=462&langId=en

But if you really want to know the answer contact Your europe advice, free service very efficient phone or email.

http://europa.eu/youreurope/advice/index_en.htm

In addition, perhaps its where the recruitment company is that counts, there are a few in the Channel Islands outside of the EU, no discrimination laws, well not quite yet anyway and will only be limited, no equality law either, no maternity rights either.
Quite a few shipping companies are registered in the islands I wonder if its where the company is registered that makes a difference.
It seems odd to me that the unions would not have spotted this and made some kind of fuss, and of course taxes.....

http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/bloggers/the-highland-line-why-are-scotlands-ferry-companies-running-their-business-off-shore.2013032881

Take a look at these list just for a start http://www.mnopf.co.uk/participating.htm and http://www.infomarin.ru/compe/owners1.shtml

Well you did ask.......Perhaps I ought to go back to making clothes for those bears!

[PatrickW]

It also works the other way around too! I think there are more UK nationals working in other EU countries than there are the other way around, can't remember where I read it but was surprised at the time.

Hope you didn't interpret my question as suggesting free movement of labour was a bad thing, looking at proper statistics (Not sourced from any publications with the words 'Daily' and 'Mail/Express' in the title!) immigration for the UK is generally beneficial.
Yes there are a lot of shipping companies based in the Channel Islands this is probably how they can almost 'discriminate' on nationality of seafarers within the EU. You can hardly blame companies for wanting to avoid all the bureaucracy, and especially the taxes, not sure why a shipping company should have to pay 12% contributions on somebody who doesn't actually work in the UK though. We really shouldn't be trying to make employment of European (especially western) seafarers more expensive than it already is. However with regards to the employment I believe that it should be EU wide if you choose to recruit in any country in the EU, not saying that this would mean it being more expensive to crew from the EU as all the company has to do is state: 'Salary ?X's. All EU nationals may apply.' Instead of Polish/Greek only for example. (I guess in an ideal world it would be 'all nationalities may apply'? What do you think?) Be judged on your quality as an officer/crew, not your nationality, your choice if you would work for the wages available. (I guess there could still be certification bonuses)
I guess my question in short was if a company is recruiting and only has a crewing office in Poland, are you still eligible to apply for the position? Even if it states you need this and that polish certification?

[Midge]

Hope you didn't interpret my question as suggesting free movement of labour was a bad thing, looking at proper statistics (Not sourced from any publications with the words 'Daily' and 'Mail/Express' in the title!) immigration for the UK is generally beneficial.
Yes there are a lot of shipping companies based in the Channel Islands this is probably how they can almost 'discriminate' on nationality of seafarers within the EU. You can hardly blame companies for wanting to avoid all the bureaucracy, and especially the taxes, not sure why a shipping company should have to pay 12% contributions on somebody who doesn't actually work in the UK though. We really shouldn't be trying to make employment of European (especially western) seafarers more expensive than it already is. However with regards to the employment I believe that it should be EU wide if you choose to recruit in any country in the EU, not saying that this would mean it being more expensive to crew from the EU as all the company has to do is state: 'Salary ?X's. All EU nationals may apply.' Instead of Polish/Greek only for example. (I guess in an ideal world it would be 'all nationalities may apply'? What do you think?) Be judged on your quality as an officer/crew, not your nationality, your choice if you would work for the wages available. (I guess there could still be certification bonuses)
I guess my question in short was if a company is recruiting and only has a crewing office in Poland, are you still eligible to apply for the position? Even if it states you need this and that polish certification?

No not all, just provided some info on the topic in an ideal world all should be able to apply, though the EU is providing protection in theory to its workforce EU wide but as you mention adverts are asking for certain qualifications/ languages etc which would appear to contradict what the EU law is there for, why this is my challenged I don't know.
Though any EU citizen can raise a complaint if they wish and the commission will look at it, search Making an EU complaint there is a website and process to follow.
What I wasn't sure of is if hiring comps are outside of the EU whether it applies, hence the links etc. just because an office advertises doesn't mean that's who the contract is with could be a company registered anywhere.
Comps being what they are will always minimise their tax position, and keep their shareholders happy.
Interesting though isn't it.