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  • Hanne Knutsen accident.

    You may have seen or read about this already , also not sure if this is for this heading or not but thought if nothing else a good discussion starter.
    Have a read and the video at the bottom on the link is an ouch moment.
    If it had been my decision in the yacht I would not have been there! I can only think
    1. He thought he could make it as he momentarily forgot he wasn't on a RN vessel
    2. He thought motor gives way to sail at all times, if he did know he was on a yacht.
    3. He was a prize plonker and should have just said I made a mistake.
    Trial ongoining so maybe a bit premature he could of course be not guilty.
    http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/535446/tri...-roland-wilson

  • #2
    I was reading a bit about this in the paper a few days ago- but remember when it happened- there seems to be an overwhelming assumption from several of the yachting community(though not all) that they have the right of way in all situations, which is just not the case.

    Very embarrasing that he was RN too- a terrible lack of seamanship... oof.

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    • #3
      Cant stand Yachts...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bobofinga View Post
        Cant stand Yachts...
        They certainly have their moments... in the Channel their constant use of VHF for collision avoidance combined with keeping a course and then altering last minute when there is no danger of collision and then reducing the CPA/ increasing the risk of collision is a bit frustrating. They seem to throw the rules out the window in fear or something as they get closer even when you?ve taken action to avoid them and have a good CPA.

        I get that they will come off very badly in a collision but there are times they seem to shoot themselves in the foot with their lack of knowledge of the rules and how they interpret situations in a ?frightened rabbit?kind of way. Terrible coming out a narrow channel in Lisbon or Brest for example.

        I?ll say nothing of ?lone yachtsmen?, I?ll get fined and lose my job if I didn?t keep a watch at all times, they get a medal for their efforts and not complying with the rules... I have a lot of respect for the sheer endurance but I?m very cynical that it?s one rule for the yachties and another for the MN- I can?t put on an alarm and go to bed! But that?s another discussion altogether, they also seem to need rescued a fair bit.... lost count how many times the RNLI were out for someone or another up in Shetland this summer!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by laura View Post
          Very embarrasing that he was RN too- a terrible lack of seamanship... oof.
          I think they all learn IRPCS by wrote during induction, but depending on branch (which I can't find mentioned) he might not have any better understanding of IRPCS or shiphandling than the next yachtsman. I mean, he could be an engineer!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Steve View Post
            I think they all learn IRPCS by wrote during induction, but depending on branch (which I can't find mentioned) he might not have any better understanding of IRPCS or shiphandling than the next yachtsman. I mean, he could be an engineer!
            Hahaha... very true! What I would say is a case of ?not doing your homework!?.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by laura View Post

              I?ll say nothing of ?lone yachtsmen?, I?ll get fined and lose my job if I didn?t keep a watch at all times, they get a medal for their efforts and not complying with the rules... I have a lot of respect for the sheer endurance but I?m very cynical that it?s one rule for the yachties and another for the MN- I can?t put on an alarm and go to bed! But that?s another discussion altogether
              Apart from not going at all (which isn't going to happen), what else can they do? They're only supposed to sleep for 20 minutes per hour and not at all near coastal as they have the luxury of anchoring out the way.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by laura View Post
                I was reading a bit about this in the paper a few days ago- but remember when it happened- there seems to be an overwhelming assumption from several of the yachting community(though not all) that they have the right of way in all situations, which is just not the case.

                Very embarrasing that he was RN too- a terrible lack of seamanship... oof.
                Some of us do know the colregs and do follow them, solas too, and some of us keep well out of the way of you all in your 'large boats', as we don't fancy being chopped up into little bits and spat out the back so to speak. I can't understand why anyone, would want to get that close to anything that much bigger, I know in races yachts get very close sometimes but that was a ship and not in the race. I can happily say I'm in the 'not all' section
                I do however know of some that seem to disregard all rules, especially so when racing it doesn't seem to matter what size the other boat is they seem to be blinkered, winning at all costs seems to be their motto, not being that competitive I don't get it. I just like floating around really having a peaceful time!

                He may of course just normally just sail a desk and have a bad memory.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by HarmlessWeasel View Post
                  Apart from not going at all (which isn't going to happen), what else can they do? They're only supposed to sleep for 20 minutes per hour and not at all near coastal as they have the luxury of anchoring out the way.
                  So it?s okay to break the rules as long as it?s for personal glory and only for 20 minutes at a time... sorry weasel I?m a merchant sailor through and through. I admire their perseverance and the art of sailing as a completely different kind of seamanship but they are not abiding by the rules like the rest of us have to. Personal glory and nothing else, what purpose does it serve exactly other than putting themselves and others into danger? Why not just take a friend along?

                  Like I said, one rule for them and another for the rest of us....

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                  • #10
                    Oh I shall add my own personal hate, jet skis, bloody things are like wasps, round and round and round - Why? They also seem to be oblivious to people on coach roofs taking down, packing sails, or trying to pick up mooring buoys, and its no fun having to hang on whilst you bounce around in their wake. Then just when you think your safe they come back again!

                    Now they never seem to know any rules at all as far as my experience goes, or indeed any manners !

                    I don't sail by myself, I'd get lonely I always have a friend or two, well someones got to make the tea!

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                    • #11
                      Everyones guilt, even when they're proved not to be guilty they are normally guilty!

                      I saw the footage of this on the Chileans new, saying it was news, and had just happened, a year after I saw it on British news, I burst out laughing, and had to explain to people, and they didn't believe me at first, news channels are filthly liars, even telling you something news, which is really history.

                      Really, the ship couldn't do anything, it was in the solent entrance scheme (whats the real name of that deckies?) and had a good chance of grounding if it pointless slowly attempted to turn for that idiot, and no way it could of stopped. So many small boats get close to you on the solent anyway, you'd be spending most the day not moving, if motor had to give war to sail.
                      ....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by laura View Post
                        So it?s okay to break the rules as long as it?s for personal glory and only for 20 minutes at a time... sorry weasel I?m a merchant sailor through and through. I admire their perseverance and the art of sailing as a completely different kind of seamanship but they are not abiding by the rules like the rest of us have to. Personal glory and nothing else, what purpose does it serve exactly other than putting themselves and others into danger? Why not just take a friend along?

                        Like I said, one rule for them and another for the rest of us....
                        I'm not saying that exactly, but providing it's done properly it's reasonably safe. There are hardly hundreds of them out there. Of course there are limits, but most serious attempts are very well prepared and organised. Also it's now an offence for anyone, including yachties/wafis, to set out on a voyage for which you're not prepared.

                        Anyway, you'd be surprised what personal glory has done for exploration and technology.

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                        • #13
                          Wind assisted liesure cruisers, need to realise, they are liesure cruises, and should be told, keep back from Merchant Vessels, or be prepared to be arrested for attempted terrorism.

                          Putin would never put up with this shinanigans!
                          ....

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dosedmonkey View Post
                            Really, the ship couldn't do anything, it was in the solent entrance scheme (whats the real name of that deckies?) and had a good chance of grounding if it pointless slowly attempted to turn for that idiot, and no way it could of stopped. So many small boats get close to you on the solent anyway, you'd be spending most the day not moving, if motor had to give war to sail.
                            I believe you're referring to Bramble bank? Could be wrong... but that's the annoying sandbank that's in the way and causes all us big ships to need to do that stupid sweeping S turn off the isle of wight.

                            The linked article doesn't mention it, but there are local by-laws established by ABP & QHM (QHM even have a nice idiot proof diagram on their web site of why big ships can't move out the way of WAFIs) which set exclusion zones around commercial vessels navigating in the channel - these are detailed at all the solent yacht clubs and also on the admiralty charts.

                            Moving Prohibited Zone.
                            11.(1). In this byelaw -
                            ‘’the Precautionary Area” means the main navigable channel which lies between an imaginary line drawn between Prince Consort and South Bramble Buoys and an imaginary line drawn between Black Jack and Hook Buoys;
                            ‘’Moving Prohibited Zone’’ means an area extending 1000 metres ahead and 100 metres either side of any vessel of over 150 metres length overall while it is navigating within the Precautionary Area.
                            (2) The master of a small vessel shall ensure that the vessel does not enter a Moving Prohibited Zone.
                            (3) For the purpose of indicating the presence of the Moving Prohibited Zone the master of any vessel of over 150 metres length overall shall display on the vessel, where it can best be seen, by day, a black cylinder, and, by night, 3 all round red lights in a vertical line.
                            Unfortunately a large number of leisure sailors appear to not know the rules or/and have a complete lack of common sense - it's not a problem confined to the Solent - don't get me started on Piraeus and the Med. in general.
                            ?Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn?t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.?

                            ? Mark Twain
                            myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

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                            • #15
                              I saw an article when it happened suggesting that he thought he could get an advantage by crossing in front. He was at the back of the pack, and the rest had stopped or diverted around the back of the tanker. Cue genius brainwaves. He also abandoned before they crossed paths and left his crew to deal with it, without mentioning he was 'stepping out for a minute'.

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