Not Under Command [CHIRP]

[alistairuk]

For those that receive a copy of the Telegraph, you should have received a copy of the Autumn edition of CHIRP along with the October Telegraph... Inside it they cover a point that has, I wouldn't say annoyed, but bothered me since qualifying.

To summarise;

Someone has wrote in enquiring why at a particular caribbean island (although this happens all over the world) there are numerous vessels who are drifting but have turned on "Not Under Command" lights. The CHIRP response amongst other things condones said behaviour and highlights the worrying concern that it has become an informal practice which is not in compliance with the regulations.

Now having only served on passenger vessels myself, I haven't spent much time "drifting" awaiting orders, however to save fuel we did trial drifting overnight in the Gulf of Aqaba and in the Mediterranean Sea, during such times we shut down the engines, which were on immediate notice (10 mins start time) and drifted - we did not exhibit NUC signals and remained "underway". Several vessels passed us during this time - all clearly identified that we were drifting and through the practice of common sense / good seamanship kept clear of us - only 1 vessel called us up to enquire if we were "drifting" and then they altered to keep clear without having to be asked to / required to under the colregs.

So the question is, on the vessel's you have been on, if drifting do you exhibit NUC or do you remain correctly "Underway"?

[GuinnessMan]

Do you mean this kind of drifting? *Tokyo drift music*




[Serious hat on]Last time I was on ship and we were drifting about the place, then no I don't think we did as we were trying to keep all lights to a minimum. At the time we were in the middle of the red sea and trying to be as inconspicuous as a Suezmax Tanker could be as the Somali's and Sudanese were running a roaring trade in hijacking/kidnapping at the time....[serious hat off]

[laura]

Drifting is fine, but it is not the same as being genuinely NUC, though any vessel I encountered 'drifting' I would give them good sea room. But it is bad practice to call yourself NUC when you are not as per the rules. We often 'drift' waiting on weather off an installation/ platform but it's controlled and we are technically 'under way' with full steerage and able to alter course speed in minutes if necessary. A full navigational watch is still maintaines. The NUC thing is bad seamanship and a lazy way of saving money- but very common in certainly parts of the world.

Encountered a fair few tankers in the Med under so called 'NUC'.. as we were on an AHTS my Captain would call them up and offer towing services... amazing how fast the NUC lights were switched off!

[Martyboy]

No, I wouldn't say drifting was an exceptional circumstance, you are just choosing to stop, if required you could fire up and move if you so desired.

[HolyNougat]

I've only used NUC lights when something major exploded, which I suppose is why the rules call for 'exceptional circumstances' - Drifting on purpose would not fulfill those criteria to my mind.

[Clanky]

Have been on ships where NUC lights / shapes were used while drifting, but you are absolutely correct Alistair, they should not be.

[pignutpilot]

mgn 152

[Inland Pirate]

This is obviously stuff I'll learn in the future, but it's been bugging me recently:

What does 'Not under command' actually mean?

Literally that no one's in charge - the bloke on watch has gone off to use the bog (for example)

Or that if something were to happen that requires you to take action, you wouldn't be able to, so it becomes everyone else's to keep well out of the way?

Or something else I missed entirely?

Thanks

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

[Clanky]

Not under command means that the ship is unable to comply with the rules, usually due to a technical failure such as engine failure or steering failure.

[HarmlessWeasel]

This is obviously stuff I'll learn in the future, but it's been bugging me recently:

What does 'Not under command' actually mean?

Literally that no one's in charge - the bloke on watch has gone off to use the bog (for example)

Or that if something were to happen that requires you to take action, you wouldn't be able to, so it becomes everyone else's to keep well out of the way?

Or something else I missed entirely?

Thanks

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

page 5, rule 3 f)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf

[Martyboy]

page 5, rule 3 f)

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/msn_1781-2.pdf

Opens up a whole argument as to what exceptional circumstances are though

[Clanky]

I think unforeseen pretty much covers it, a planned period of drifting awaiting orders / a pilot / a scheduled arrival time etc is certainly not exceptional.

[Hatchorder]

I think unforeseen pretty much covers it, a planned period of drifting awaiting orders / a pilot / a scheduled arrival time etc is certainly not exceptional.

Totally agree.

I was on a tanker that was on the spot market. We used to run towards our next port and then before we got there drift for a couple of days whilst it was all hands on deck tank washing. We would stop engines and drift without NUC lights because we were not NUC .... The Engines were on 5 minute standby and at night we would illuminate decks, which was not right, but it did make it clear we were not underway from our sailing lights, but we could always get underway pretty quickly and the Old Man made it quite clear if we were the keep clear vessel we had to start the engines and get out of the way. If you were on deck and the lights all went out at night you knew we were underway again.

Complying with the rules means that you can either alter course or speed in order to avoid another vessel. Therefore it follows that if you have either steering gear failure, engine failure or something such as a serious fire involving everyone in the firefighting or unable to control your engines or steering gear then you are NUC. If you are drifting, maintaining a bridge watch and complying with the rules then you can start your engines and manoeuvre to avoid a situation. You are not NUC.

Pignutpilot hit it on the head with the MGN 152. It has been a problem for some time - despite it being against the rules.

Hang 'em I say!

Ian

[Silvertop]

Does that mean we are the only sensible people on the plant? Because there are so many out there who use the NUC lights as a get out clause to leave to the other ship to move, even when in high traffic areas, which is dangerous!! Would it be a good idea to make this a punishable offence??

[Lewis]

I have drifted we never displayed NUC lights. But I don't get why a drifting ship is not RAM seems to meet the definition in rule 3
" The term “vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre” means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term “vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre” shall include but not be limited to: (i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing, or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
(ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
(iii) a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
(iv) a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
(v) a vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
(vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course."