25% increase in SMarT funding

[Rootsea]

"The UK Transport Secretary, Patrick McLoughlin, announced on 9 September 2013 a 25% increase in Support for Maritime Training (SMarT) funding."
http://www.warsashacademy.co.uk/news...announced.aspx

Fantastic news to see the UK Gov. recognising how important shipping is and putting money into the industry.

The question for me is whether we will see an increase in companies employing British junior officers, or will these 200 extra cadets be fighting for the same number of jobs as there are today?

[Chiefy]

All he has done is restore it to the levels they where at before "austerity" was implemented.

As for employment of more UK officers.....pffft that depends on far more things but you never know

[Rootsea]

All he has done is restore it to the levels they where at before "austerity" was implemented.

True, but at least they have restored the funding. That is more than can be said for most other Goverment-funded schemes that have seen cut-backs.

[EH75]

Wonder if the training companies who have (quite significantly in some cases) slashed the wages they are paying cadets, will now return this to pre-austerity levels....

[Lewis]

This is probably an unpopular point but we don't need more we need better. How many struggle to find a job when qualified? If their is more funding it should be spent on a higher standard of training not making more places available.

[OldSalt]

I have to agree with Lewis. Reduce the dreadful dropout rate during training, improve the standards of training ashore and during sea time.

[Chiefy]

also could go towards the 5 year re-val cycle which may or may not be coming in (just as soon as the MCA decides what it's stance is) where by we have to do short courses each time.

Already note at least one company asking seafarers to front up the costs themselves as part of a "pay" deal

[EH75]

Yeah maybe they could use the money to pay lecturers more. I don't know how feasible that is but when lecturers are getting paid about half what they could earn elsewhere with a master's ticket then its not really surprising that teaching standards leave a lot to be desired. I know life isn't all about money but if you have a masters ticket and have been earning say ?60K+ for a few years it might be a bit impractical to come down to ?30-35K...

[bobofinga]

Couldn't agree more EH75 , apart from Warsash , the government funded Collages cannot attract Lecturers of significant calibre due to the frankly laughable wages on offer.

You can get a lot more as a Tax Exempt OOW than a Masters Ticket Lecturer...

[GuinnessMan]

*mounting soap box*

This is probably an unpopular point but we don't need more we need better. How many struggle to find a job when qualified? If their is more funding it should be spent on a higher standard of training not making more places available.

I had to have a bit of think before I responded to your point and this is going to be even more un-popular that what you said but whilst I do generally agree that we don't need more, I do think we need better candidates in general. I think the selection process needs to be re-thought out by some companies. I was a cadet pre-austerity and there were a lot of places taken up by cadets who just did not want to be there at all, they were forced to be there by their family. I personally find that a bit of a tragedy because that's one place wasted on some half-wit when it could have been used on someone who really wanted this career path. I think they should do a small familiarization trip on a local boat prior to starting the cadetship, wouldn't cost that much. I also think that there needs to be a selection day of sorts, find out who the ones with the leadership potential are, find the ones with the aptitude and the ones who have the right attitude because you will be very hard pushed to develop that from an interview alone! That's my 2p on it anyways...

Yeah maybe they could use the money to pay lecturers more. I don't know how feasible that is but when lecturers are getting paid about half what they could earn elsewhere with a master's ticket then its not really surprising that teaching standards leave a lot to be desired. I know life isn't all about money but if you have a masters ticket and have been earning say ?60K+ for a few years it might be a bit impractical to come down to ?30-35K...

Having the Master's ticket does not them god, nor does it make them employable elsewhere. Yes, the wages could be better, but they will know themselves that the wages plummet once you come ashore no matter what position you're really in and to be honest these jobs arn't exactly rare. I had a look earlier, there were dozens of jobs going for Technical and Marine Super's so the jobs are there if they want them, the question to ask is why arn't they taking them? A teaching position is, comparatively, quite a cushy number compared to that of a Marine or Technical Superintendent. If something goes wrong and a load of students fail because they're crap as a teacher, they won't lose their jobs over it, they'll just blame you lot. If they don't work hard, keep up with what's going on on board the ship, someone dies, or the ship explodes or the ship's detained for avoidable reasons repeatedly, then that could quite possibly be them out of a job, unlikely to be hired elsewhere and may even face a jail sentence!

Also, don't forget, those that can't do, teach.....

To be honest, there are a lot of old lecturer's kicking about, some of the utter relics and dinosaurs from a completely different era and I think they do need to should not be left to teach the academics (unless they have teaching certificate) or the legal side of things. I remember one lecturer who used to rant and rave about how crap ISM was, how it wasn't needed, things were fine in his day, etc, etc. It's a load of crap, ISM by itself isn't that bad so long as it is implemented properly. You don't need a checklisk for everything and the checklist should only act as aide memoir. That was the ethos we used when we re-wrote the SMS in my previous company and to be honest, it could be a good example to all of what an SMS should look like (DNV, usually the most stringent, loved it).

*hopping off soap box*

[Midge]

Some people choose to teach because they love it, there could be lots of reasons why they do.
Those that teach for the right reasons are usually they best teachers, its not all about money. Seeing people learn, improve and get inspired by a subject can be reward enough for many teachers I know.
I imagine most of us can remember a good teacher that made a difference.
I doubt very much there's no comeback on poor results, if they can't attract students they don't get any money.
Out of interest are cadets asked to fill in feedback forms by the colleges? If so that's the opportunity to express a view. That and their companies I presume they would prefer cadets passing rather than failing?
I doubt colleges would be happy about numbers dropping due to poor performance in these cash strapped days.

[GuinnessMan]

I doubt very much there's no comeback on poor results, if they can't attract students they don't get any money.
Out of interest are cadets asked to fill in feedback forms by the colleges? If so that's the opportunity to express a view. That and their companies I presume they would prefer cadets passing rather than failing?
I doubt colleges would be happy about numbers dropping due to poor performance that in these cash strapped days.

The cadets are a captive market to a certain extent, there are not that many places that can run the cadetships and even the betters ones will have a limit on how many cadets that they can practically take, so even the craps ones will retain some business. Plus, the colleges arn't really there to attract the student, they're there to attract the sponsor. The sponsor is the one who decides where the students study, not the student. The student may get a choice, but it will be similar to the one I was given which was "South Shields or Warsash?".

Cadets are not asked to fill in feedback forms unless they are on short courses. There are complaints procedures in place, but good luck finding them. The college I went to wouldn't tell you where they were or what those procedures, you had to find out from student services and, quite sadly, we all found out a wee bit too late.

[Martyboy]

I'm not "sucking up" and maybe it's because I am now doing HND and it's classed as "senior marine" at STC, but the majority of lecturers I have dealt with, and almost certainly all who teach us now are of a high standard. I have had 1 or two hellish lecturers during my cadetship, where Wikipedia provided more information than the classes...... but I don't think paying them more money will make them work harder.

I'm also unsure why people think more funding will stop cadets applying who don't stick it out.... I'm sure most people take the job with the best of intentions of seeing it through, nothing can really prepare you for what's involved in this job until your standing on the ship doing it. The company employ the cadets and pay their wages, How would you propose we spend the money to force people to stay? I work for Maersk, and for all people might complain about things with in the company.... Our wages are on time, every vessel i've sailed on has had a good crew and fantastic opportunities, my expenses have been paid when asked for and to be honest, I couldn't of asked for anything else from a training provider.... The majority of people who have left my course have been from poor training providers, I don't want to say Clyde and Zodiac, but it's a fact, and to be honest, I'm unsure how re-allocating the funds and employing less cadets will help this situation

[Midge]

Interesting GM you would still think that it's in the sponsor best interests to have well trained cadets that get to the end of a course successfully, they are still paying some of the cost smart doesn't cover it all. Some of the courses at the universities do have students that are not sponsored too.
Rings the ' money bell' in my head, I can't see another reason why it's not picked up otherwise.
I can't see why else a badly performing college course doesn't have some kind of review process.
The college mine is at has feedback forms for all the modules. What happens to them I don't know, but they chase them up if not returned do I presume they are of some reviewing stats process. Hatchorder had a good go at the catering last year at Warsash, with his survey, perhaps it takes complaints once you can find the process as you mentioned.
Interesting though how it crops up so often and nothing changes mmmm.

[GuinnessMan]

Interesting GM you would still think that it's in the sponsor best interests to have well trained cadets that get to the end of a course successfully, they are still paying some of the cost smart doesn't cover it all. Some of the courses at the universities do have students that are not sponsored too.
Rings the ' money bell' in my head, I can't see another reason why it's not picked up otherwise.
I can't see why else a badly performing college course doesn't have some kind of review process.

I'd like to say "yes they all do" but sadly some just don't really care, they just want an arse on a seat, however that is now slowly becoming the minority. There have been some changes as some company's have started reviewing a certain college due to it's poor level of training and other matters (one big one I remember was accommodation), but unless more places pop up and start training cadets you're still stuck with the same colleges and there are only so many people that each can take.