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SMarT Funding to be Doubled

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  • #16
    Originally posted by alistairuk View Post
    While it's better than nothing, it's still not going to resolve the problem - just shift it further down the line... While getting the first trip is understandably the big problem at the moment - since everywhere wants experience, all this risks doing is ensuring that theres a bunch of unemployed officers with 12 months sea time, who having obtained that - find themselves out of work with no one wanting to employ them!

    I predict in a few years time the usual suspects from the industry will be continuing to complain about a lack of suitable officers - while doing absolutely nothing to employ them.

    A potential better solution would of been a requirement that to be in the SMART scheme and benefit from all that is related to it, they must employ a minimum number of british officers per cadet within the scheme.
    But is it not that, to even get a sniff in at employment with a company, that at least 6/12 months experience is needed for junior officer positions? This SMarT plus scheme would seem to give those cadets a head up over other junior officers with no experience. Admittedly, it appears quite obviously to be a raw deal for those newly qualified officers who were not on the SMarT Plus scheme.

    Your idea about employing a minimum number of British officers per cadet trained does seem to be better though.

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    • #17
      How can we try and fix this then? Pressure on the Chamber of Shipping? Engage with the Union? Write to MNTB, SoS for Transport? Training Providers and Colleges?

      Unfortunately I do still think that the only way prospective cadets can help is to only accept sponsorship from companies offering employment. And this needs advertising on places like here with albeit little reach. Its the only way to make training companies take notice. However with the reported 2 applicants for each cadetship I highly doubt this will deter keen young wannabe seafarers from accepting a place with said training companies.
      Superyacht OOW
      SSTG Cadet 2015-2017
      Ex Royal Navy Navigator.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by riker View Post
        But is it not that, to even get a sniff in at employment with a company, that at least 6/12 months experience is needed for junior officer positions? This SMarT plus scheme would seem to give those cadets a head up over other junior officers with no experience. Admittedly, it appears quite obviously to be a raw deal for those newly qualified officers who were not on the SMarT Plus scheme.

        Your idea about employing a minimum number of British officers per cadet trained does seem to be better though.
        When I came through the system 10ish years ago, there was no massive pile of persons waiting to find that first trip - not saying a few people didn't struggle - but generally you would find employment once you completed the cadetship within a few months if your sponsor didn't take you on.

        I was probably at the start of the mass drive from the industry to recruit thousands of cadets, pushing them through the training and then ditching them at the other end, the end result being that there was no longer the small number of people completing the training with no employment from their sponsor, suddenly there was thousands - resulting in the current predicament that many find themselves in - the employers have adapted to this mass of applicants, by requiring people with 6-12 months experience - after all, the market is such that they can afford to demand this.

        The same thing that happened then, is in my opinion likely to happen in a few years time, but rather than being "newly qualified" it will be 100s with 12 months experience looking for jobs and we'll potentially see a minimum of 12 - 24 months experience being required!

        Time will tell.
        “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

        – Mark Twain
        myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

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        • #19
          Alistairuk makes some excellent points. It’s quite obvious there are no junior jobs around compared with how it was even 6 years ago. You could do a search then in various agencies and they were there, advertised. You can spend several hours now and not find any at all, or if you happen to come across one there is the experience clause.
          The numbers of cadets has in the past couple of years appeared to have dropped, I would guess some did research and discover the ‘no job’ issue, and followed other avenues.

          So what is Smart 2 for ? Anyone used that?

          I also noticed on the list of supporters of that CoS letter some missing names I would have expected to see. Plus one I was surprised to see Moore Stephens.... but as this was back in November it maybe an incomplete list anyway.
          Finally, if all of these supportive companies will be offering jobs for smart plus in about three years, how about they start advertising these options to current newly qualified officers who are looking or have been for quite sometime now. Why will they suddenly have them in the future, but not now? I’m sure there would be many delighted to get a job, and not have to send off countless on spec applications, that they never get a reply to.

          The mods thought the site was getting quiet and wondered where we all were, seems we are alive and kicking!

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          • #20
            did read one company..might be union shipping that stated that British 3rd officers were much more expensive.....2nd abit more and chiefs and master no real differnce.....they inferred help employing them as thirds would lead to them being employed further up the ranks

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            • #21
              There are also some companies in that Chamber of Shipping doc that I know for a fact DO NOT employ any British officers at all. Curious that they would suddenly pledge to do so. But if genuine all the better!

              We have to start somewhere and I don't think anyone can argue that this boost to funding is a bad thing. So I say well done ICS and Nautilus and everyone who was involved in putting together the ideas behind SMaRT Plus, some things have made it in, and I'd say we are on a promising path!

              Sadly too late to make me a SMaRT Pluser buy hey ho.

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              • #22
                MIN 567 (M) Update regarding SMarT Plus Scheme

                https://assets.publishing.service.go...7_Complete.pdf


                1. 2.1 SMarT Plus funding will be payable in addition to SMarT funding where sponsoring companies enter into an agreement with the MCA confirming/declaring the number of cadets they will sponsor from the start of their Officer of the Watch training until completion of their training for a second Certificate of Competency. One of the measuresof success of SMarT Plus will be the number of officers (who were sponsored throughSMarT Plus) who subsequently go on to obtain their second Certificate of Competency. In return for SMarT Plus funding, sponsoring companies must be able to offer the newlyqualified officers with the sea service they will require to obtain a second Certificate of Competency.



                1. 2.2 We would anticipate that most SMarT Plus sponsoring companies would be able to offer the newly qualified officers the opportunity to start gaining the requisite sea service for a second Certificate of Competency almost immediately after they have qualified for their Officer of the Watch Certificate of Competency. Feedback is requested from sponsoring companies advising how long it would take on average for a newly qualified officer to obtain the sea service.


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                • #23
                  What exactly does second CoC mean?
                  Does that mean revalidation or Chief mates CoC?

                  Could this mean that sponsor companies could claim for old cadets that have been through the system and got the required seatime for a revalidation?
                  2/O Tankers

                  Watch out for big green boxes...

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                  • #24
                    No mention of applying this retrospectively to ex cadets... Way to make an already difficult job environment harder for current NQOOWs...
                    Pointy bit is the front, blunt bit is the back... Simples!

                    Will work for money/sea time.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MrStealth View Post
                      No mention of applying this retrospectively to ex cadets... Way to make an already difficult job environment harder for current NQOOWs...
                      You have the opportunity to make that point this is an information notice. Email and make it!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by flobbernoggin View Post
                        What exactly does second CoC mean?
                        Does that mean revalidation or Chief mates CoC?
                        It means either Chief Mates or Second Engineer CoC

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Guys stop jumping the gun,

                          we only had a meeting last week to discuss a way forward for SMarT Plus at the UK Chamber of Shipping, nothing has been agreed.

                          We are only at the workshop stage of the proposal for the MCA.

                          Not even I at the meetings knows the full scope of SMarT Plus yet.

                          if anything this will only effect September 2018 cadets and only 150+ of them to increase year by year.

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                          • #28
                            Thanks Lee. Your input is always well appreciated.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by LeeCTO View Post
                              We are only at the workshop stage of the proposal for the MCA.
                              Do you not get the impression it is 90% written and decided already?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by newbie View Post
                                Do you not get the impression it is 90% written and decided already?
                                I thought when it was announced it was, almost seems to me as if someone said have we consulted on this? Ah better do a quickie then.
                                It needs to address those already qualified who have not got a job as an officer yet. Just searching for jobs for those just qualified without any experience in rank highlights what the problems are, and have been for several years. Danger is they will be stepped over by the new smart plus officers, making the issue even worse. Companies these trained with need to offer them the same opportunity to keep the playing field a level one.

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