Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Gamma Marine Training

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Gamma Marine Training

    The City of Glasgow College have now created a college in India called Gamma Marine Training.

    http://gamma-marine.com/overview/

    Indians can do all their training in India and only have to come to the UK to do the exams, saves them them a lot of some in accomodation I guess.

    Which begs the question why not just do their tickets in India to begin with, speaking to some Indians they say the come to the UK as it is a lot easier than back home, but I'm not sure how much truth is in it.

    What do people think of this? There were a lot of angry comments about it on British seafaring facebook groups.

  • #2
    Seems that COGCs plan is 'provide training as a service' and part of that is expanding worldwide.

    It's disappointing to see adverts on LinkedIn saying "Indian/Panama/UK CoC acceptable" and then offering a salary/T&Cs that are just not realistic in the UK.

    Why on earth would a recruiter hire a UK National when they could get someone from India on a quarter of the salary and for twice as long onboard? Especially when they have proof that they have been trained to exactly the same standard as verified by the MCA...

    Comment


    • #3
      I did hear that because they were only being granted 1 year study visas, they struggled to get back to sit MCA exams after the HND which doesn't seem very fair, perhaps this was designed as a solution to that?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 06njack View Post
        Why on earth would a recruiter hire a UK National when they could get someone from India on a quarter of the salary and for twice as long onboard?
        They wouldn't, that's why deep sea is almost dead to people from developed countries. The only place that still has a lot are LNG carriers and cruise ships (if they count as "deep sea").

        Comment


        • #5
          Sad but true

          Originally posted by GarnetWomack View Post
          They wouldn't, that's why deep sea is almost dead to people from developed countries. The only place that still has a lot are LNG carriers and cruise ships (if they count as "deep sea").
          Sad, but in reality this is the truth, I'm Just doing my first sea phase and a few things are beginning to become clear. This is what I have noticed from my time so far at sea. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. From speaking to the Officers the pay and conditions are as follows for the deck departmentThird 3000Second 3900Chief 6000 (around)Captain 12000 (around)The salary for the second and third has been reduced of late and could go down again (2600). The wages for third/second are only paid for time on board. If you want to get a annual pay rate it then depends how many month you work. A contract for 5/6/7 is normal. Therefore 6 month onboard as a third mate will net you 13,500 pounds with no benefits.The Chief mate, Chief Engineer, Electrical Engineer and captain all get loyalty bonuses (few thousand dollars) and some basic at home salary (few hundred dollars per month)These are deep sea salaries. From what have gathered so far this is not about jobs or the lack of them, but pay and conditions. If you can get a job:With the government In a developed country For an oil major tanker/gas carrierWith a good cruise lineWith a good RoRo pax companySuperyachtsYou will be ok. If you plan to get a jobOn a car/bulk carrierRandom Chemical/gas/tankerPoor RoRo pax/cruiseSomeone from a less well developed country will be willing to do the job for a salary you simply can't/won't live on. The company knows this and won't even consider you for the position, they know you will just leave once you get some sea time. This basically leaves the reality that in a global industry there are only really a limited number of jobs that will allow you to live in a developed country.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cobolt View Post
            Sad, but in reality this is the truth, I'm Just doing my first sea phase and a few things are beginning to become clear. This is what I have noticed from my time so far at sea. If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me. From speaking to the Officers the pay and conditions are as follows for the deck departmentThird 3000Second 3900Chief 6000 (around)Captain 12000 (around)The salary for the second and third has been reduced of late and could go down again (2600). The wages for third/second are only paid for time on board. If you want to get a annual pay rate it then depends how many month you work. A contract for 5/6/7 is normal. Therefore 6 month onboard as a third mate will net you 13,500 pounds with no benefits.The Chief mate, Chief Engineer, Electrical Engineer and captain all get loyalty bonuses (few thousand dollars) and some basic at home salary (few hundred dollars per month)These are deep sea salaries. From what have gathered so far this is not about jobs or the lack of them, but pay and conditions. If you can get a job:With the government In a developed country For an oil major tanker/gas carrierWith a good cruise lineWith a good RoRo pax companySuperyachtsYou will be ok. If you plan to get a jobOn a car/bulk carrierRandom Chemical/gas/tankerPoor RoRo pax/cruiseSomeone from a less well developed country will be willing to do the job for a salary you simply can't/won't live on. The company knows this and won't even consider you for the position, they know you will just leave once you get some sea time. This basically leaves the reality that in a global industry there are only really a limited number of jobs that will allow you to live in a developed country.
            You can see the ITF recommended wages at the following link:

            http://www.itfseafarers.org/files/se...rpretation.xls

            That's just the recommended so many companys pay less, some more. But on a Masters ITF wages you'd get more flipping burgers in McDonalds in the UK so it kinds of makes going to sea pointless. That's about the kind of money most deep sea companies pay their crew from developing coutries.

            There's still good money on LNG with some companies paying 3/Os about £40k 3 months on 2 off, and Skippers about £100k+ 3 months on 3 off. I don't know exact figures off the top of my head but the money on cruise ships isn't meant to be that great, but you can live off it, and with the collapse in the pound it's given a good pay rise as wages are usually in dollars/euro with a lot of companies, the roations there are usually 4 months on 2 off so not the best there either.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by GarnetWomack View Post
              That's about the kind of money most deep sea companies pay their crew from developing coutries.
              Sweeping generalisation there... what logic are you basing your judgement on?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by newbie View Post
                Sweeping generalisation there... what logic are you basing your judgement on?
                From speaking to Filipino, Ukrainian and Russian seafarers and them telling me about the general pay and conditions their compatriots get paid.

                If you want some real sources:

                http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/...labour-market/

                Major Ukrainian trade unions joined forces and developed a new collective bargain agreement (CBA) with the lowest recommended wage for ratings starting from US$1,085
                The global economic crisis has forced shipping companies to hire ratings from India, China, the Philippines, Indonesia and other countries with a minimum wage of US$1,100. Ukraine is able to offer a significant amount of skilled ratings ready to work at the same wage. However, the current situation in the local labour market is preventing them from getting a job.

                The new CBA was presented to Ukrainian representatives of global shipping companies on 9 February 2017. It received considerable interest from such companies as VShips, MSC, Columbia Shipmanagement and Univis, as well as a number of major crewing agencies.
                The biggest ship management companies in the world rubbing their hands together in glee at the prospect of already cheap labour getting even cheaper.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I recently passed my 2nd mates exam from India ,maybe i can shed some light on the above topic .The reason why some Indian Seafarers prefer UK over India is as follows.

                  To be able to give your exams India we require all of our sea service to be rendered on a vessel whose manager has an RPSL (kind of approval from Indian govt) number.
                  Any sea service on a non RPSL companies vessel is not assessed for Exams.

                  The written exams especially Ship stability ,is one of the most difficult to crack.Usually it takes min 2-3 attempts and after each attempt a mandatory gap of 4 months.So 8 months go down the drain.Then we have a STAR system applicable,in this if you score less than 50% of the passing marks, you are required to go back and take 4 months of college again.

                  Similar situation with the orals , if you fail in an oral then wait for another 2 months.So overall the examination process is very time consuming.It takes min 12 to 18 months to get you COC . I have seen lads slogging since last 2 years to get there 2nd mates FG COC

                  For the Seafarers coming up from the Crew side to become officers , they are first required to clear your Near coastal vessel NCV examinations and then appear for 2nd mates F.G ,which is again a very time consuming process.

                  Level of difficulty,source to it is word of mouth.There is a notion that exams in India are tough as compared to UK.I believe examiners in UK want to see what you know and in India its the other way round ,they are more interested in what you dont know.

                  Then there is this issue of trading vessel and non trading vessel,where as in UK if you have sailed on a vessel above 500 GRT that is more than enough ,but over here even if you sailed on a say 5000 GRT vessel and it was an OSV/PSV or any non trading vessel then the COC gets a limitation. Example 2nd mates FG COC limited to Offshore supply vessels only .Who on the earth would take a person with such an COC when they have people available with Unlimited COCs.

                  There are plenty of other reasons to, in fact i would appear for my Chief mates from most probably Australia ,Nee Zealand or UK .There is a lot of Red tapism out here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cdtneeraj View Post
                    I recently passed my 2nd mates exam from India ,maybe i can shed some light on the above topic .The reason why some Indian Seafarers prefer UK over India is as follows.

                    To be able to give your exams India we require all of our sea service to be rendered on a vessel whose manager has an RPSL (kind of approval from Indian govt) number.
                    Any sea service on a non RPSL companies vessel is not assessed for Exams.

                    The written exams especially Ship stability ,is one of the most difficult to crack.Usually it takes min 2-3 attempts and after each attempt a mandatory gap of 4 months.So 8 months go down the drain.Then we have a STAR system applicable,in this if you score less than 50% of the passing marks, you are required to go back and take 4 months of college again.

                    Similar situation with the orals , if you fail in an oral then wait for another 2 months.So overall the examination process is very time consuming.It takes min 12 to 18 months to get you COC . I have seen lads slogging since last 2 years to get there 2nd mates FG COC

                    For the Seafarers coming up from the Crew side to become officers , they are first required to clear your Near coastal vessel NCV examinations and then appear for 2nd mates F.G ,which is again a very time consuming process.

                    Level of difficulty,source to it is word of mouth.There is a notion that exams in India are tough as compared to UK.I believe examiners in UK want to see what you know and in India its the other way round ,they are more interested in what you dont know.

                    Then there is this issue of trading vessel and non trading vessel,where as in UK if you have sailed on a vessel above 500 GRT that is more than enough ,but over here even if you sailed on a say 5000 GRT vessel and it was an OSV/PSV or any non trading vessel then the COC gets a limitation. Example 2nd mates FG COC limited to Offshore supply vessels only .Who on the earth would take a person with such an COC when they have people available with Unlimited COCs.

                    There are plenty of other reasons to, in fact i would appear for my Chief mates from most probably Australia ,Nee Zealand or UK .There is a lot of Red tapism out here.



                    So to sum up your post. You are saying that people like you prefer the UK system as its seen as an easier effort and quicker approach to simply get the CoC and all's good.

                    Well I would suggest that our system needs to be changed to reflect yours. I think your comments on the enforced gap between resit attempts are excellent ideas to weed out the incompetent. If I were an examiner I'd want to know what candidates didn't know and ensure they then did know before being judged competent. My stability exams certainly did not take multiple resits because I received excellent training at college and afloat. This training did not just prepare me to pass the exam as you seem to imply is the end goal, but also for a practical approach at sea which has ensured that I am safe and competent in my job.

                    Your point on tonnage limitations is also a good point. Im currently working as Master on large tugs (well under 5000grt) and whilst my CoC is unlimited I would not feel confident in tomorrow going straight to a VLCC and signing on as Master due to the issue of being able to fulfil my duties in the most efficient, safe and professional manner required by a competent seafarer in any position on-board.

                    People with the attitude that any bloke has a given right to get a CoC and the process should be as pain free as possible gets my back up and it really annoys me to see you openly say that our system is easy coupled with the fact that exams back home for you are much harder and that you find this to be wrong. People who spend 2 years mealy attempting to pass exams for a CoC of any grade should not be in our game especially with a U.K. ticket like mine as they're incompetence only makes me and anyone else with a respectable CoC look like an idiot when they inevitably screw up.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by andy95 View Post



                      So to sum up your post. You are saying that people like you prefer the UK system as its seen as an easier effort and quicker approach to simply get the CoC and all's good.

                      Well I would suggest that our system needs to be changed to reflect yours. I think your comments on the enforced gap between resit attempts are excellent ideas to weed out the incompetent. If I were an examiner I'd want to know what candidates didn't know and ensure they then did know before being judged competent. My stability exams certainly did not take multiple resits because I received excellent training at college and afloat. This training did not just prepare me to pass the exam as you seem to imply is the end goal, but also for a practical approach at sea which has ensured that I am safe and competent in my job.

                      Your point on tonnage limitations is also a good point. Im currently working as Master on large tugs (well under 5000grt) and whilst my CoC is unlimited I would not feel confident in tomorrow going straight to a VLCC and signing on as Master due to the issue of being able to fulfil my duties in the most efficient, safe and professional manner required by a competent seafarer in any position on-board.

                      People with the attitude that any bloke has a given right to get a CoC and the process should be as pain free as possible gets my back up and it really annoys me to see you openly say that our system is easy coupled with the fact that exams back home for you are much harder and that you find this to be wrong. People who spend 2 years mealy attempting to pass exams for a CoC of any grade should not be in our game especially with a U.K. ticket like mine as they're incompetence only makes me and anyone else with a respectable CoC look like an idiot when they inevitably screw up.

                      You mean the Indian system that is full of unnecessary bureaucracy and is tailored towards the higher achieving academics who seemingly lack common sense and practical abilities? Coincidentally I feel the UK is heading down the same route pushing the requirement for A Levels and more resulting in some new officers who can quote Solas chapter and verse but are unable to replace the retroreflective tape on a lifebuoy.

                      As for different ship sizes, I've sailed on general cargo, offshore, cruise ships and super yachts with the smallest ship being 500gt and the largest over 100,000gt. Ultimately they are all ships and the job largely remains the same amongst them all. Going from a large tug to a VLCC wouldn't happen because of a variety of reasons (dangerous cargo endorsements & charterer minimum experience requirements). The basics remain the same on all ships and I would argue that the workload is often more difficult on a smaller ship due to the lesser number of officers yet having exactly the same watch keeping and legislative paperwork requirements as a larger one.

                      A lot of people criticise the Dutch system which doesn't require reassessment once you have finished your cadetship, just an accumulation of sea time to reach the higher ranks, yet the Dutch seafarers are world leaders in various specialist areas of the industry such as heavy lift.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X