Tricky oral rules questions

[The Kraken]

Just wondering if we could make a resource here for tricky common oral rules questions? With a format such as below:


Q: A fishing vessel is crossing from your port side (you're a PDV) in a TSS. Actions?

A: A fishing vessel is not to impede the passage of a vessel in a TSS by rule 10 so I would stand on with caution. However, if after taking a series of compass bearings and ascertaining a risk of collision exists, I would sound 5 short and rapid blasts on the ships whistle. If the fishing vessel continued on its collision course I would then sound 2 short blasts on the ships whistle and alter course to port to pass astern, as rule 18 requires PDVs to keep out of the way of fishing vessels.



I think this would be beneficial as these are the sort of questions that can catch people out under pressure. It would be even better if the question could be replaced with merely the ships lights then 'Actions?' after it. I look forward to your own situations...

[belfaster]

A recent question coming up is the issue of 'crabbing' by sailing vessels. Single red/green light on port or starboard bow, actions?

The answer seems to be just, take a series of compass ranges and bearings, access the risk of collision and take logical action. Dont jump the gun

[belfaster]

Also Critical Equipment lists! What are they? Where do you find it? And what is critical equipment.

[HolyNougat]

One that I particulalry enjoyed was the following:

Examiner: You are a PDV in fog. Forward of the beam you hear 1 long last every two mins. Actions.

Cadet: Try and get the contact by radar, slow down and or stop.

Examiner: OK - you can't get him by radar.

Cadet: Stop and sound 2 long blasts.

Examiner: OK - you stop. And now you hear forward of your bean two long blasts. What now?

Cadet: Erm.... wait for the fog to clear? - there is not really a good answer to this but it came up in my chief mates orals...

[condeh]

You must proceed at a safe speed. In some circumstances a safe speed is zero knots. That was my response to that question.

A friend of mine was put on a yacht for his CM orals, with another yacht end on. Cue panic. (He passed)

[HolyNougat]

Yes - but the problem is, what if you are on the Grand Banks for 2 weeks with zero visibility - you have both stopped - you can't wait there forever but you can't proceed without risking collision.... I think the correct answer really would be to maneuver until the sound signal is behind your beam then proceed until you can't hear it anymore...

[Inland Pirate]

Probably a stupid answer, otherwise it would have been mentioned, but, er, radios?

[belfaster]

Probably a stupid answer, otherwise it would have been mentioned, but, er, radios?

........................

In time you will learn how that is the complete wrong answer in an oral examination, although 100% practical when actually on a ship. There are many many problems and limitations using a radio for collision avoidance, and examiners/MCA hate it.

[Inland Pirate]

Stupid answer then! Why is it such a problem, if neither ship is making way, and you can't see?

At least I didn't go for AIS

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[belfaster]

Stupid answer then! Why is it such a problem, if neither ship is making way, and you can't see?

At least I didn't go for AIS

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Its not a stupid answer in practical terms. VHF is great for collision avoidance in the open sea, but for colregs there is no real application for radio except in rule 5 (look out) and rule 7 (risk of collision) , but not in terms for action to be taken...

Now imagine stuck in the middle of pacific for 2-3 weeks and the company contacts the ship and asks why are you 2 weeks late to port and you say.
''we are in fog and there is a noise coming from a ship ahead, so we stopped'' Ridiculous.

[HolyNougat]

Or there is the old favorite - what if you are a PDV underway doing 10 knots and a sailing boat comes up behind you doing 15 knots- who is the give way vessel?

[HolyNougat]

Or another rule 19 question - you are in clear visibility, but on your port side there is a fog bank. On Radar you detect a vessel 3 miles on your port side moving as if to cross ahead with a small CPA.. You can't see him because he is in fog. What should you do?

[HolyNougat]

Then there is the whole nightmare of NUC underway but not making way - which lights should you display.

[Inland Pirate]

Or there is the old favorite - what if you are a PDV underway doing 10 knots and a sailing boat comes up behind you doing 15 knots- who is the give way vessel?

I would argue the sailing vessel is to give way, as it will be the overtaking vessel, as well as less restricted in its ability to manoeuvre, due to its higher speed.

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[belfaster]

Or there is the old favorite - what if you are a PDV underway doing 10 knots and a sailing boat comes up behind you doing 15 knots- who is the give way vessel?

overtaking, they keep clear. I think I was asked that question on my oral.