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Vessel NUC astern and you are PDV - Who is stand on?

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  • Vessel NUC astern and you are PDV - Who is stand on?

    I recently purchased an orals prep app and a question came up that asked the following.

    You are the OOW onboard a PDV in open sea. Astern is a vessel NUC coming up.

    Who is stand on?


    I put the answer down basically that because he is NUC and cannot keep out of the way, we should alter course. However, I got it wrong and the answer that came up was

    "Rule 13 overrides all other rules in section 1 and 2, therefore the NUC must keep clear"

    I don't understand how that makes any sense if the very definition of a vessel NUC is that they cannot manoeuvre as required by the rules and therefore, they cannot keep out of the way of another vessel.

    Who is correct?

  • #2
    Their answer is correct. This is the kind of question which is highly unlikely to happen in real life, but is put there to challenge your full understanding of the rules. So split the rules to find out which takes precedent.
    - for PDV, rule 18, keep clear of a vessel NUC. But rule 18 states clearly in the first line, except where rules 9, 10 and 13 otherwise require.
    - for NUC vessel, it is overtaking the PDV (highly unlikely, I know), but rule 13 states notwithstanding anything contained in the rules of part B section 1&2 (which includes rule 18), any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

    Hope this helps.
    If you can't laugh, you shouldn't have joined!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Silvertop, thanks for that.


      The logic doesn't make sense to me though. If a vessel is NUC, and by rule 3f (which is part A and not part B section 1&2) cannot keep out of the way of another vessel, then how could an examiner look you in the face and tell you that the NUC has to keep clear as per rule 13 if they are coming up from astern?

      I understand that basically anything coming astern of you in sight of one another, means that you have to maintain course initially as the stand on vessel. And when you take a series of compass bearings etc, they are constant bearing and decreasing range, you are then to take action to avoid collision i.e. not stand on into a collision.

      I guess that the examiner is looking for my robust understanding and application of rule 13, rather than the obvious that a vessel NUC cannot keep out of the way.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is one of these daft questions they give you. Its also worth thinking about rule 2 in relation to special circumstances, limitations of vessels etc:


        (a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

        (b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EH75 View Post
          This is one of these daft questions they give you. Its also worth thinking about rule 2 in relation to special circumstances, limitations of vessels etc:


          (a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

          (b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.
          Aye (b), the "do whit ye need to dae to get the feck away from someone who is being a bawbag" rule ha!



          Thanks EH75. Will need to start getting stuck into the scenarios with people soon.

          Comment


          • #6
            It’s a question that your answer can theoretically show an understanding of the relationship between rules… Much like the CBD crossing from port it firstly quickly identifies if you’ve learned the rules by “who gives way to who” rather than actually understanding why.

            The main thing is you don’t say you are the give way vessel. “Give way” and “stand on” have specific responsibilities/definitions under the rules and incorrectly labelling yourself as the “give way” shows (supposedly) a lack of understanding. (Avoid using the term I would give way to the other vessel as regardless of your meaning the examiner is likely to take that as you identifying as the give way vessel).

            Id suggest answering said scenario along the lines of; I am the stand on vessel and she is the give way vessel as she is overtaking me (approaching from blah blah), however taking into account that she is exhibiting Not Under Command which by definition is a vessel through some exceptional circumstance is unable to comply with the rules - I would (make some sound) and take the corresponding action to keep clear of her.

            I don’t agree of course with any of this bull**** answer method they want, but you can understand the theory behind it supposedly checking that you actually really understand the rules and the relationships between them.
            ?Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn?t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.?

            ? Mark Twain
            myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

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