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  • #16
    Yes this is true, however the chief mate level exams in the PD course are the exact same as the HND ones. The PD is composed of HND + 3 PD modules (which have nothing to do with chief mate level anything). So my basic argument on that is that if we are exempt then so should anyone who did the HND because we have been examined to the exact same level (except the PD modules which as I say having done them, aren't really relevant tbh).

    For the PD you don't have to do OOW writtens either, whilst HND students do I believe, so there's actually an argument they they have been examined more thoroughly than we have. The only chief mate level written examinations I will ever have to do (provided I get all my seatime in and do my chief mates before 2017) will be the HND graded units and other written exams that are done as part of the HND course.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bobofinga View Post
      EH75 , Im sure the HND are not taught the Chief Mates/Masters level Stability and Navigation? Unlike the PD/FD
      Well the PD is just the HND + PD modules and I was taught the chief mate level stability etc as part of the HND part of the course.

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      • #18
        See my post above, very much stability to mates and masters, as well as nav

        And yea, I had to do writtens in Nav Stability and Op's for my OOW ticket.

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        • #19
          From what I understand on the PD you do graded units (at Chief Mate level) while on the HND you do the OOW SQA exam... some standardisation would be nice and maybe less confusing. The management courses were just to give it a little extra and easier to take the qualification ashore/ take a degree later on at master's level.

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          • #20
            Hey Laura, I am required to do 2 graded unit exams at the end of my HND and I had 1 for the HNC. This defines my final HND grade, the SQA exams are just the MCA's professional competency exams. I think confusion comes in because "SQA Academic division" does the HND course, but "SQA Exams division" is hired to invidulate the exams on behalf of the MCA, but they are totally separate, and both are required when doing the HND route.

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            • #21
              Nah I'm pretty sure you have to do all the graded units on the HND as well, because are they not what you are assessed on to be actually awarded the HND in the first place?

              As far as I was aware there is graded unit 1 which allows you to be awarded the HNC, then graded units 2 and 3 which allow you to be awarded the HND then the PD modules which are assessed by portfolios and allow the award of the PD certificate.

              EDIT: Martyboy beat me to it, but basically what he said.

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              • #22
                http://www.sqa.org.uk/files_ccc/HNCD...al_Science.pdf this will tell you everything if you can be bothered reading it :P

                http://www.sqa.org.uk/sqa/30962.html this is about the exams

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                • #23
                  No wonder we're all doomed, the whole thing is crazy and each college seems to have its own take on it! To the lifeboats!!

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                  • #24
                    I know my comments wont be popular but having seen some very switched on people fail the chief mate written exams (often passing one but failing the other leading to having to resit both again) I have seen how much you really need to know, bearing in mind at the time we did an experiment and most of us passing the exams set by the college for FD route it was a way of comparing oranges with oranges. Also at the time most of us had well over 18 months sea time (when the companies were not so tight on time) most of us had a really good practical and theoretically knowledge.

                    My views were also shared by most of the MCA examiners as I used to spend many hours talking to them during surveys as part of my shore management role.

                    I am sure a lot of the people who did get the exemptions are excellent and it is nothing to do with them personally but I have had a situation in the past with someone who did the exemption route that almost got a ship in real trouble due to not fully (inside out) understanding Stability and when questioned on it they said the college didn't really examine that particular area of Stability.
                    Pilotage - It's just a controlled allision

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                    • #25
                      Or the liferafts... my lifeboats are a bit s**t to put it mildly and no amount of maintenance seems to help...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by laura View Post
                        No wonder we're all doomed, the whole thing is crazy and each college seems to have its own take on it! To the lifeboats!!
                        Lets hope all the colleges have a standard PSC&RB Course too :P

                        Originally posted by Pilot Chris View Post
                        I know my comments wont be popular but having seen some very switched on people fail the chief mate written exams (often passing one but failing the other leading to having to resit both again) I have seen how much you really need to know, bearing in mind at the time we did an experiment and most of us passing the exams set by the college for FD route it was a way of comparing oranges with oranges. Also at the time most of us had well over 18 months sea time (when the companies were not so tight on time) most of us had a really good practical and theoretically knowledge.

                        My views were also shared by most of the MCA examiners as I used to spend many hours talking to them during surveys as part of my shore management role.

                        I am sure a lot of the people who did get the exemptions are excellent and it is nothing to do with them personally but I have had a situation in the past with someone who did the exemption route that almost got a ship in real trouble due to not fully (inside out) understanding Stability and when questioned on it they said the college didn't really examine that particular area of Stability.
                        I totally agree Chris, and I often find (without causing offence) that because their are no SQA exams for FD guys, they tend to spend much more time focusing on the mates and masters stuff..... Role playing ship masters law, before they can do the basic OOW job, and it isn't picked up as they aren't examined.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pilot Chris View Post
                          I know my comments wont be popular but having seen some very switched on people fail the chief mate written exams (often passing one but failing the other leading to having to resit both again) I have seen how much you really need to know, bearing in mind at the time we did an experiment and most of us passing the exams set by the college for FD route it was a way of comparing oranges with oranges. Also at the time most of us had well over 18 months sea time (when the companies were not so tight on time) most of us had a really good practical and theoretically knowledge.

                          My views were also shared by most of the MCA examiners as I used to spend many hours talking to them during surveys as part of my shore management role.

                          I am sure a lot of the people who did get the exemptions are excellent and it is nothing to do with them personally but I have had a situation in the past with someone who did the exemption route that almost got a ship in real trouble due to not fully (inside out) understanding Stability and when questioned on it they said the college didn't really examine that particular area of Stability.

                          I work and have worked with a lot of guys with British CECs who scare the hell out of me on a regular basis. That the college didn't cover it is a poor excuse for incompetency!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Pilot Chris View Post
                            I know my comments wont be popular but having seen some very switched on people fail the chief mate written exams (often passing one but failing the other leading to having to resit both again) I have seen how much you really need to know, bearing in mind at the time we did an experiment and most of us passing the exams set by the college for FD route it was a way of comparing oranges with oranges. Also at the time most of us had well over 18 months sea time (when the companies were not so tight on time) most of us had a really good practical and theoretically knowledge.

                            My views were also shared by most of the MCA examiners as I used to spend many hours talking to them during surveys as part of my shore management role.

                            I am sure a lot of the people who did get the exemptions are excellent and it is nothing to do with them personally but I have had a situation in the past with someone who did the exemption route that almost got a ship in real trouble due to not fully (inside out) understanding Stability and when questioned on it they said the college didn't really examine that particular area of Stability.
                            Would agree with everything you have said. The teaching at my college was pretty poor and most exam papers were re-used year on year and consequently over the years copies of them had found their way into the hands of various people. This resulted in being taught to the exam, as opposed to being taught the overall subject. Also there were so many exams and so much to learn that a lot of it went in one ear and out the other after the exam was over. Add in to that the fact that I was never very convinced that the officers on board the ships I sailed on really knew what they were doing a lot of the time and the fact I have never really needed to use the stability and stuff I learned since I was examined on it about a year and a half ago means I am a wee bit apprehensive about my level of knowledge as I go into the job proper. I know a lot of my classmates feel the same.

                            Whilst I am currently eligible for the exemptions I actually don't think I'd mind having to do the writtens that much, would be good to get a proper refresher on things.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by laura View Post
                              I work and have worked with a lot of guys with British CECs who scare the hell out of me on a regular basis. That the college didn't cover it is a poor excuse for incompetency!
                              I think STCW has a lot to answer for there! If your Ticket is STCW Approved, we'll hand you a CeC and really........... They aren't at an equiv level, they should be, but just aren't!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by EH75 View Post
                                Would agree with everything you have said. The teaching at my college was pretty poor and most exam papers were re-used year on year and consequently over the years copies of them had found their way into the hands of various people. This resulted in being taught to the exam, as opposed to being taught the overall subject. Also there were so many exams and so much to learn that a lot of it went in one ear and out the other after the exam was over. Add in to that the fact that I was never very convinced that the officers on board the ships I sailed on really knew what they were doing a lot of the time and the fact I have never really needed to use the stability and stuff I learned since I was examined on it about a year and a half ago means I am a wee bit apprehensive about my level of knowledge as I go into the job proper. I know a lot of my classmates feel the same.

                                Whilst I am currently eligible for the exemptions I actually don't think I'd mind having to do the writtens that much, would be good to get a proper refresher on things.
                                TBH I didn't really grasp stability until I dont my SQA Revision........... I could always number crunch, make tables and put numbers in, but it wasn't until the revision I actually sat and thought........ Hrmmm, L X B X d X Cb.................... AHHHHHHHHHHH So Cb Is a ratio! It was always just a number in a figure to me before... and thats the most basic example from stability day one!!!

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