Eng Cadet drop-out rate?

[Mark_S]

I think I may currently be on board the above ship...

[EH75]

jobsjobsjobshjobsjobs: http://www.clyderecruit.com/seagoing...assenger-roro/

Says you need experience but then they all say that...

[GuinnessMan]

Try speaking to Matchtec or Technip. They seem to be on a recruiting splurge at the moment...

[laura]

All the ones I have applied either ignored me or stated my lack of experience as the reason for me not getting the job.

It is seriously hard getting a job, I have applied to all of the agencies and big companies, I am constantly emailing Clyde for anything they advertise on facebook or their website but get no response.

The whole networking thing is a load of rubbish, yes I accept that its not all about working with British officers, but I have regularly been complemented by the officers that actually took an interest in by training about how hard working and keen to learn I was, but impressing guys who work in companies who have a policy of not employing Brits in sectors of the industry where British officers are pretty rare isn't too helpful.

It is tough getting the first stamp.... you got a good CV together? Also I think doing the phoning thing seems to pay off a bit better than emails/ letters... at least following them up it's harder to ignore a phone call... and follow it up again and again! I know DOF were recruiting everyone and their dog for a while with a big fleet expansion- don't know if that's still the case but it would be worth chasing up. And weren't BP/ Chevron on the look out for 3rds or is that the whole 'six months tanker endorsement'? You are calling people who aren't recruiting as well?

Yeah there's people out there who have jobs because they 'know' the right people, a bit frustrating if you've been putting the hours in... hope something turns up soon anyhow!

[EH75]

Maybe your CV needs work? Get Hatchorder to look at it. He re-did mine for me and I got offered a few jobs/interviews shortly afterwards. Whether I would've been offered them with my original cv I have no idea but it's certainly a lot better than it was.

Also, did you get my PM? look at some of the companies I mentioned in it.

[gadget123]

As EH75 said , you can't be 'seriously' looking because I have seen a good few adverts for 3rd mates recently...

All the ones I have applied either ignored me or stated my lack of experience as the reason for me not getting the job.

It is seriously hard getting a job, I have applied to all of the agencies and big companies, I am constantly emailing Clyde for anything they advertise on facebook or their website but get no response.

The whole networking thing is a load of rubbish, yes I accept that its not all about working with British officers, but I have regularly been complemented by the officers that actually took an interest in by training about how hard working and keen to learn I was, but impressing guys who work in companies who have a policy of not employing Brits in sectors of the industry where British officers are pretty rare isn't too helpful.

[Lewis]

Probably the same guy, he just got promoted :P. I'm not due off soon but he is. just done my motivational bit. Search web for 3rd officer jobs, seen what they pay, then had a look for what I could buy with it.

[EH75]

Agreed. I was on with a total dick of a chief mate once and he ruined the whole atmosphere of the ship. Things improved immeasurably once he went home.

[laura]

Not sounding too goos, sometimes it only takes one guy onboard ro ruin what should be a good ship, and the higher up the ladder they are the worse it can be for everyone. Keep in there and focus on the end goal, you due off soon?

[Lewis]

Mines seems to be going other way round had an excellent 1st sea phase. Officers and crew were incredibly helpful. Now on second sea phase and all I do is stencilling and gangway watch. It's not fault of the officers but the captain. Seems to be going out of his way to suck fun out of it and make it almost impossible to learn. I do extra in my own time of tasks I want to be involved in I actually spend my study day studying. But no mater what I do captain wont get off my case. Worse thing is although he is generally unpleasant to me to the other cadet on board it is much worse I would call it bullying. To top it off because of trading pattern 24 hours to load and discharge and longest voyage is about 12 hours struggling to get bridge time I need.

[laura]

Hahaha thanks Lewis, well I haven't gone aground yet!

No but my cadetship completely turned around in my last sea phase, I got lucky with a good ship and I was getting passable in my new language. Not only did the social isolation stop but it was little things like understanding 'ah now they're going to take the ropes' or understanding what the Captain was saying to the Mate for example made a huge difference. I actually became member of the crew and not just a 'hanger on' or the 'British cadet' plus my experience was building and I was getting used to the culture and finding ways to get buy, not to mention reading every manual/ SMS/ drawing onboard. On my first ship the Captain didn't even know my name, we were a crew of 16, I was 'you cadet, I don't know your name!' And that was after a month onboard. Looking back it's kinda funny now, it wasn't quite as funny then right enough... well maybe it was!

[Lewis]

Just to play devils advocate it's says your a qualified deck officer so your training can't of been that bad. Maybe it isn't a fault but a feature designed to produce self reliant and determined officers :P

[laura]

I agree with GM. Not necessarily in early twenties but should have lived on your own and had a full time job for a year or so.

Laura do you mean somebody dropped out on first day of college? If so how /why?

I dunno, they turned up and the next day they'd disappeared and were never heard of again?

[laura]

No not all British Officers are good but that doesn't mean the foreign ones are excellent either. This onus on the cadet to to organise their complete training is not particularly fair, as the lowest member of the crew, and the 'foreigner'. As a cadet I was on decent boats with officers who spoke a fairly high level of English but... as the only English speaker onboard, it was not used and trust me I tried very hard thank you, they were simply not interested. Instead of working with the crew I was regularly either working completely alone/ gangway watches in port alone and spent two thirds of my cadetship on a 18-06 watch and was often left with menial tasks, nobody wanted to speak english, easier to give me a whole day of washing/ chipping/ chart corrections in a corner. I asked questions, turned up for tasks that I thought might be helpful outside my watches and worked my ass off, but I could not make my crew show me anything, teach me anything or have a conversation with me at the dinner table, free time was terrible, at work people spoke to you when they had to, on your time off there was no reason to even bother, or when you try it means sitting awkwardly wondering what evryone is saying- just like at work. Early on especially as the officers didn't want to speak english I was dumped with the Filippino ratings who didn't think girls should be there anyway and whose english was often terrible, then I had to spend months trying to convince them that I was okay, by which point I was usually punted off due to berth space, berth space was for cadets who were getting a job- not tonnage tax cadets. I saw how other cadets of the two nationalities my company does employ were treated by the crew onboard- it was like night and day. I even remember a new second mate making a point of speaking at English trying to genuinely help me as a cadet, the Captain shouted at him for not using their own language. Fluency isn't the problem, the tonnage tax is.

Are we the only nationality who sends our cadets to train with different nationalities where they will be the only Brit onboard and then tell them it's their fault for not 'nutting up or trying hard enough'? This is someone who is now fluent in another language which I sure as hell couldn't speak a word of as a cadet. Yes, speak a few words and everyone will love you and you'll be one of the crew instantly- nope, not even close. When you can genuinely contribute without someone having to use a 'foreign language' then your onto a winner- before then it's just embarrasing. None of the guys I work with spent their entire cadetship with a completely 'foreign' crew. Just us Brits who do that. If it's a mixed crew you've got half a chance, if they have less than two common languages you're screwed.

I'm with Gadget. Although I would say that proficiency in English helps, in my experience it's the quantity of english that was the problem not the quality. And 3/4 of my cadet time was on British flagged ships- what a joke.

[Rootsea]

Just for a bit of a comparison, I used to work in an army Regimental Recruitment Team. On average about 30% of recruits in training would drop out - almost all within the first 3 months of their course. By far the biggest issue was culture shock combined with homesickness - most people who suffered an injury went through the army rehabilitation system and went back into training at a later date. Interestingly, we had a lot of people turn up at careers offices who had dropped out of training but realised they had made a bad call and wanted to re-enlist - we once had a man who had dropped out on Friday and was in the office on Monday morning!

Of course, the situation is different as the army has a very good selection procedure to weed out people who aren't committed or aren't suitable. Out of every 100 'expressions of interest' only 20-30 would ever make it to the Infantry Training Centre in Catterick.

Personally I think a high drop out rate isn't necessarily a bad thing. It ensures that only those capable of doing the job to the required standard are able to finish the course. In addition with some jobs there is an 'X Factor'; Being a Merchant Navy Officer is unlike any other career and those who do the job require that certain 'X Factor' which enables them to cope with - and thrive upon - the challenges they will face. That is something I believe you have or you don't have, you could be an excellent person but find that you simply do not enjoy the lifestyle or the job. It is far better for those people to be able to drop out without a stain on their character than for them to have to continue doing something they don't enjoy.