Eng Cadet drop-out rate?

[gadget123]

A lot of the drop out rate is due to the awful conditions on the ships that a lot of cadets are sent on. It would be interesting to see a comparison of dropout rates between different companies, I bet the rate in the companies employing British officers is lower.

If companies want to reduce the dropout rate maybe a "being yelled at by a pissed up russian" section should be added to the interview process along with making them eat fish head soup for a few months. But of course that is unrealistic and the dropout rate will always be high.

But in reality we need a high dropout rate, the simple fact is there is not enough jobs available for newly qualified British officers, and if it wasn't for the high dropout rate it would be even harder for people to find jobs once qualified.

[HarmlessWeasel]

I'd also run an assessment day of sorts, group tasks, leadership stuff, that sort of jazz....

That's sort of what the borg are doing, although post-selection, so I suppose more as a learning experience for those that might not already have the basics of those skills (and for good fun too). They say since they've started doing it they've seen retention rates increase drastically and had very positive feedback from colleges.

[EH75]

Do many leave due to not achieving the academic standards?

There was a few like this in my intake. I put that down primarily to the ridiculous exam scheduling at the end of phase one (something like 10-15 exams in the space of 2-3 weeks, it was really badly organised). Probably cost between 5-10 people their place either through resigning cos they couldn't handle or being fired.

I heard about a couple of guys failing drugs tests and being punted as a result, although no-one I knew personally. Although I suspect a reasonable percentage of cadets may have tried drugs prior to starting their cadetship (just like the rest of the population) most people aren't daft enough to do it once entering the profession.

But yeah most of the drop out outs were due to not having a good time at sea. Not really sure what could be done realistically to combat this. Of course, unrealistic stuff like...

-Going on ships with all British Officers (or officers who are interesting in training you and understand the training requirements)
-Always going on with other British cadets
-Having internet on-board for better communications with home
-Getting away to sea earlier to get a better idea of things

...might help, but at the end of the day those things are never going to happen and even if they did a lot of people would still leave. If its not for you, its not for you.

[laura]

I imagine its hard screening people at interviews for suitability to go to sea, very few people seem to have family who have served at sea. Almost without exception, every colleague I speak to wouldn't recommend their children to serve at sea, so I can understand why so few come from seafaring backgrounds (I don't really understand this either). I think it would be hard to curb the dropout rate, and I do know quite a few people who have regrets for dropping out too early.
Also, with some of the ships that people are sent on with crews from Eastern Europe and Asia it can be quite difficult for a lonely Brit cadet, no suprise when I few drop out because of the poor conditions on some of those rust buckets.

I think I've posted a link to a thesis on cadets before here- which covers some of the reasons for wastage on detail from the seafarer's research centre in Cardiff- as you say about the lonely Brit, I think the conclusion was that although it was sometimes down to the individual, often shipboard experiences had a much bigger impact on a cadet's decision to stick it out and that it was unfair to say that they had been unsuitable. I'm not paraphrasing well- I'll try to find the link... interesting reading, slightly depressing and very long... but if anyone was genuinely interested a good resource!

[laura]

We had one who left after struggling academically in classes and someone who started at the same time as us but in a different class who got kicked out after a positive drugs result- probably rare but not unheard of.

At the same time we've had one guy who took several repeats after failing a lot of his exams several times but he stuck it out. One guy who did well throughout his entire cadetship (or seemed to) got too dillusioned during his final sea phase and a bit sick of the Russians he was sailing with but passed his orals before he gave it up for good.

Anybody know how these figures compare down the years? Has it been better/ worse/or same in past times for cadet drop out rates?

I sometimes wonder if these figures would be different if cadets were a bit older, is there any difference between those on 'good' or 'bad' boats or is it more reliant on character/ personality and determination?

[YoungMariner]

I imagine its hard screening people at interviews for suitability to go to sea, very few people seem to have family who have served at sea. Almost without exception, every colleague I speak to wouldn't recommend their children to serve at sea, so I can understand why so few come from seafaring backgrounds (I don't really understand this either). I think it would be hard to curb the dropout rate, and I do know quite a few people who have regrets for dropping out too early.
Also, with some of the ships that people are sent on with crews from Eastern Europe and Asia it can be quite difficult for a lonely Brit cadet, no suprise when I few drop out because of the poor conditions on some of those rust buckets.

[hiho123]

It's a bit shocking to hear these figures, sounds like alot of people sign up without knowing what they will actually do.

To add my own experience, I applied when I was 17 with minimal research as it seemed like a good idea at the time and the uniform sounded swanky.

I applied at my current grand old age of 23 after lots and lots of research and deciding it is the best choice for me and something I will commit too....

I think this is probably where a lot of younger chaps and chapesses slip up...

How many would you say slip up on the drugs and alcohol tests? I could understand alcohol but didn't think many would be silly enough to get caught with a positive for any drugs.

[GuinnessMan]

Do many leave due to not achieving the academic standards?

Urm, not always. That was the bit I missed out when I was talking about the folks who left. Majority left because they didn't bother their arse to come to college, didn't try very hard at sea (one lad didn't complete a single item of his TRB) or a positive D&A test. Only two lads that I knew left because they decided it wasn't for them, the rest got the boot....

[PeterH]

Do many leave due to not achieving the academic standards?

[laura]

Definitely agree that one advantage to the HND route is the shorter college phase bedore getting to sea... but on the other hand the advantage of five months in college first is you're a bit more prepared in some of the subjects and it makes sea a bit less shell shocking, especially given some of the ships you're sent to.

[EH75]

I think one serious advantage to the HND route is the 6 week basic training the straight to sea to find out whether you are going to waste the next few years of your life.

I'm not sure if they still do that. Pretty sure the guys at my college on that route didn't go away until the same time as the rest of us (ie, after 6 months at college). Might be different for different colleges right enough and I'd probably agree that the sooner you get away the better as a lot of people do drop out when they realise what the job actually entails.

My intake (deck) I reckon the drop out rate was somewhere in the region of 50-60%. Its funny though, there are some people who seem to be really enjoying it who drop out, and some folk who are absolutely useless who make it to the end.

[YoungMariner]

Strange really, I started at 17 and when I look at the guys from my course who made it to Masters Orals almost all of us were fairly young when we started whereas all the older guys had seemed to have more sense and moved into a cushy shore job within a few years of the cadetship.
I'd be interested to see the figures on cadets coming through, but I'd say the ideal age would be 18-24, people over that age would need to be really determined to handle life as a cadet. Bear in mind, it'll take another few years to get through the tickets and build up experience.
The drop out rate really does need to be addressed, but I think one serious advantage to the HND route is the 6 week basic training the straight to sea to find out whether you are going to waste the next few years of your life.

[bobofinga]

I agree with Guinnessman the ideal age would be +21 , somebody who has experienced life outside of school ... however school leavers who are interested and mature enough will still progress just as well as older cadets.

Myself and 4 other guys on my course joined after School at 18 and finished with CoC's . We started with around 40 people and I think 18 are Officers now.

[size4riggerboots]

Out of our original group of 12, one left after the first college phase, one did 2 weeks at sea and was sick as a dog, one decided it wasn't for him at the end of the first sea phase, one was ill for a lot of phase 4 and didn't like it anyway and one left to marry his girlfriend, leaving 7 of us who graduated.

[Martyboy]

Our class of 27 lost 7 I think.