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  • Nmw

    Does anyone know why the MN is exempt from the NMW with respcets to cadets?

  • #2
    Because if the government insisted on the NMW no one would take on cadets. Plus, we are essentially apprentices, and as such are entitled to pocket money and the money it takes to train us, which obviously we don't get.

    Any other politically charged questions you'd like to ask?
    "Crazy like wild wolves threatened by fire, send them all to the bottom of the sea."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Ducki52 View Post
      Because if the government insisted on the NMW no one would take on cadets. Plus, we are essentially apprentices, and as such are entitled to pocket money and the money it takes to train us, which obviously we don't get.

      Any other politically charged questions you'd like to ask?
      Because you're not employed, you are sponsored and don't receive a wage as such, just a "subsistence allowance"....
      I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

      All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

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      • #4
        I thought the whole MN was exempt from the minimum wage not just cadets.

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        • #5
          Certain companies do employ you though, you will receive a wage and be taxed accordingly.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
            I thought the whole MN was exempt from the minimum wage not just cadets.
            Nope. Wages for all nationalities have to be ITF compliant or something like that. However I do believe that MLC 2006 has just been ratified so I need to check...
            I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

            All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

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            • #7
              But we are paid far less the apprentiship NMW so the argument where like apprentices is invalid because where nothing like apprentices they have a lot more rights.. i've been doing research on it and if your ship stops in the UK or is British flagged you may have a case to claim the NMW it clearly states that under seafarers. Also having previously done law and having a few friends in law who looked at my contract they argued it satisfied all the tests for a contract of services which would consitute employment as opposed to a contract for services which wouldnt.

              im just intrested to see the justification, struggling to find somewhere to live at the moment and think the pay is rather rubbish for the rubbish i had to put up with! found ti hard to sub swearwords there haha.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GuinnessMan View Post
                Nope. Wages for all nationalities have to be ITF compliant or something like that. However I do believe that MLC 2006 has just been ratified so I need to check...
                Yes but the ITF minimum wages are lower than the UK national minimum wage.

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                • #9
                  http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...type=RESOURCES
                  Linkedin

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                  • #10
                    So you can pay foreign crews less than the NMW along as the ships isn't in the UK.

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                    • #11
                      If your not happy with the pay not being payed minimum wage I'm sure there is a supermarket near you screaming for a shelf stacker or trolley pusher right now! Maybe that's your real calling not merchant navy if you can't handle the low wages as cadet. If companies had to pay too much wages for cadets then they wouldn't employ British cadets. Simple.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by K202 View Post
                        But we are paid far less the apprentiship NMW so the argument where like apprentices is invalid because where nothing like apprentices they have a lot more rights.. i've been doing research on it and if your ship stops in the UK or is British flagged you may have a case to claim the NMW it clearly states that under seafarers. Also having previously done law and having a few friends in law who looked at my contract they argued it satisfied all the tests for a contract of services which would consitute employment as opposed to a contract for services which wouldnt.

                        im just intrested to see the justification, struggling to find somewhere to live at the moment and think the pay is rather rubbish for the rubbish i had to put up with! found ti hard to sub swearwords there haha.
                        Apprentices pay tax and NI on what they get as they are technically employed. You are not employed, you're a sponsored student and the money you get is not a wage payment, it's a subsistence allowance and is at the level it is to avoid it going over the tax threshold.

                        Also, the ITF minimum wage is just that, the bare minimum. Most pay slightly above it and also include a "fixed overtime" and an "extra overtime" component as well depending on what their CBA says.
                        I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

                        All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not only are you a sponsored student, but what are you spending your money on whilst at sea? Most apprentices I know are on crap pay and have to live at home because what pay they do receive is subject to the day to day spends of someone planted on terra firma, factor in that most apprentices are 16-18 and you have to expect to be in line with the kind of NMW most 16-18 year olds are on which is sub 5 quid per hour I believe. If you can't live on 700 quid a month, when most rent is around 400 per month makes me wonder what it is you want to spend your money on. As far as I'm aware most of my friends who've been through apprenticeships didn't get the vast majority of their travel expenses covered.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pignutpilot View Post
                            If your not happy with the pay not being payed minimum wage I'm sure there is a supermarket near you screaming for a shelf stacker or trolley pusher right now! Maybe that's your real calling not merchant navy if you can't handle the low wages as cadet. If companies had to pay too much wages for cadets then they wouldn't employ British cadets. Simple.
                            I can understand why cadets are not paid the minimum wage, there are a lot of additional costs involved with training cadets etc. But I think it is wrong that foreign crews do not have to be paid the minimum wage.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GuinnessMan View Post
                              Apprentices pay tax and NI on what they get as they are technically employed. You are not employed, you're a sponsored student and the money you get is not a wage payment, it's a subsistence allowance and is at the level it is to avoid it going over the tax threshold.

                              Also, the ITF minimum wage is just that, the bare minimum. Most pay slightly above it and also include a "fixed overtime" and an "extra overtime" component as well depending on what their CBA says.

                              As someone said earlier - some cadets are employees of their company rather than "sponsored students" and these cadets as employees are paying tax and NI where their salary is over ?8105 (the threshold for tax) and ?7592 (the NI threshold)

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