Foreign Flagged Ships

[jc173]

Thought i'd make people aware of a potential pit-fall in foreign flagged vessels with foreign officers.


If you are on a non UK vessel anyone who signs your TRB MUST have a UK CoEC (Certificate of Equivalent Competency) or UK CoC. If not there is a form that must be completed by the master saying that the person putting signatures in you book is conversant with UK regulations/rules including COSWoP, the role of the MCA and British H&S law.


This confuses me some what, because my 2/E is Danish (On a Danish flagged vessel) and he has no CoEC because Danish Officers tend to sail on Danish Vessels. I asked him about the form and he got all shirty because it's a Danish vessel so Danish law applies...why should he have to know about UK law! This form seems to have the officers very sceptical about touching my TRB because they don't want to undergo this additional assessment.


Has anyone had anything similar?

[YoungMariner]

Well, if he has a problem with that then he contact the company and state he is unwilling to train British Officers. Some people are ridiculous and small minded.

[alistairuk]

Thought i'd make people aware of a potential pit-fall in foreign flagged vessels with foreign officers.

If you are on a non UK vessel anyone who signs your TRB MUST have a UK CoEC (Certificate of Equivalent Competency) or UK CoC. If not there is a form that must be completed by the master saying that the person putting signatures in you book is conversant with UK regulations/rules including COSWoP, the role of the MCA and British H&S law.


This confuses me some what, because my 2/E is Danish (On a Danish flagged vessel) and he has no CoEC because Danish Officers tend to sail on Danish Vessels. I asked him about the form and he got all shirty because it's a Danish vessel so Danish law applies...why should he have to know about UK law! This form seems to have the officers very sceptical about touching my TRB because they don't want to undergo this additional assessment.


Has anyone had anything similar?


Engine Cadet Dr X

Where is this form? Either its newly introduced (as in last 3 years) or your information is wrong.

As a cadet I did not sail on UK flagged vessels, or with British officers. None of whom probably had a CeC since we were Bahamas flagged ships.

It was sufficient to record there original licence details in the TRB on the appropriate pages.

The cadets we have coming onboard over past year don't have any paperwork as you have described and none of them have encountered any problems with the MCA doing their OOW licence.

Unless I missed it, this also isn't mentioned anywhere in the latest information we had from the MNTB for cadet training that they bring onboard with them when they join (or on the DVD).

[newbie]

Unless I missed it, this also isn't mentioned anywhere in the latest information we had from the MNTB for cadet training that they bring onboard with them when they join (or on the DVD).

MGN 250, Point 2.2.2

MaTSU the administrative body require evidence in lieu of a UK CoC or UK CeC

[alistairuk]

MGN 250, Point 2.2.2

MaTSU the administrative body require evidence in lieu of a UK CoC or UK CeC

Surely that is so your company can prove you meet the requirement of the SMarT scheme, not for the MCA...

Although as I said, we've never had any of the cadets appear with these forms.

[newbie]

It's not the Cadet's responsibility to bring a form as such, the form would be completed between Company and DSTO.

MCA set the rules for SMarT, MaTSU administer SMarT on MCA's (DfT) behalf.

In theory, 'should' the MCA query the DSTO signatures in the TRB and they are non-UK CoC or CeC holders then they could ask to see evidence of UKLAP proficiency

[chris]

all very interesting - How about the situation for ETO training as very few ships electricians or ETOs depending on their background have a CoC or CeC. Who should be signing my TRB tasks? So far its been mostly non watch keeping electrical officers on both foreign and UK flagged ships.

[newbie]

I can't help you with that one Chris as I've never come across the ETO TRB, suggest you check with your shoreside Cadet Training Officer. I would imagine a differing set of principles apply.

[GuinnessMan]

This is a new one on me as most of the signatures in my book were from non UK CoC's and MCA accepted it...

[Aleorea]

working on a uk flagged ship is not good as an officer... you have to pay national insurance if u live in uk and work on uk flagged ship... much better for workers if all ships with Britishers on them flagged out...

[GuinnessMan]

working on a uk flagged ship is not good as an officer... you have to pay national insurance if u live in uk and work on uk flagged ship... much better for workers if all ships with Britishers on them flagged out...

Aye, cause that would do our cadet system ****ing wonders....

[jc173]

Aye, cause that would do our cadet system ****ing wonders....

I thought the aspiration would be for British Officers to serve on British Ships? Using their own legislation and that wonderful book we call COSWP?

[ETwhat?]

Thats the vague idea that keeps being banged around, but its also what the americans do to some degree and that has been heavily critisised for damaging the american registry.
of course in an ideal world the legislation is harmonised through those helpful people at the IMO etc. so it doesnt matter what the flag

As for having to pay national insurance, thats jsut terrible move to another country simple

[Aleorea]

Aye, cause that would do our cadet system ****ing wonders....

What effect would it have on the cadet system? I'm pretty sure the majority of british cadet being trained today aren't on UK flagged ships...

[Aleorea]

As for having to pay national insurance, thats jsut terrible move to another country simple

Much better if ships flagged out from UK to Bermuda or Cayman Islands, that way the ships still fly the red ensign, but the crew are free from national insurance.