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  • Moonlighting

    Is there anything in the qualified officers on here contracts to prohibit doing a temp contract when on leave?

  • #2
    This was brought up in my HAL interview yesterday! Yes, there is a clause in the contract that says if you want to work on another ship during your leave period then you have to ask permssion. I'm hoping to do a few weeks here and there on the tall ships in my leave periods, I'm guessing they might not mind that, but remember your leave period is for R&R so that you can go back to the ship for the next contract in a good condition and ready for the fight! (As it were..)

    I'm not saying that's the case for all ships, but it sounds reasonable.

    Size4riggerboots

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    • #3
      Originally posted by lazygenius View Post
      Is there anything in the qualified officers on here contracts to prohibit doing a temp contract when on leave?
      It all depends on the contract you signed and what it says, generally it is frowned upon / not allowed due to the complexities of what happens if there is an incident etc while working for a 3rd party. It may also be seen as being disloyal etc. that is of course assuming your "real" employer knows about it or finds out.

      Work for Tall Ships and Charity may well be encouraged (or at least not discouraged) but will need at the least the fore knowledge of you employer.

      Remember your time off is earnt because you dont get any on the ship (not properly), to work outside your employer for a few extra quid to me is wrong on 2 main levels, the company you work for should pay enough that you dont need to work extra elsewhere and the compnay you moonlight for should employ enough people to cover their tonnage etc and not rely on others to make up the numbers etc. Add to that what a hypocrite you look going for pay negotiations asking for more leave knowing all you do is work for some one else during said leave period.
      Trust me I'm a Chief.

      Views expressed by me are mine and mine alone.
      Yes I work for the big blue canoe company.
      No I do not report things from here to them as they are quite able to come and read this stuff for themselves.


      Twitter:- @DeeChief

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      • #4
        Additional observation: If your on a rolling contract, ie. you sign a new one each time you join vessel (and not paid while not onboard) there is no problem with working for other companies while not onboard your main ship
        ?Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn?t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.?

        ? Mark Twain
        myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Chiefy View Post
          It may also be seen as being disloyal etc...
          Makes me laugh when people talk about organisations showing or appreciating loyalty. It's a bit like the old "nations don't have friends, they have interests" thing.

          Remember your time off is earnt because you dont get any on the ship (not properly), to work outside your employer for a few extra quid to me is wrong on 2 main levels, the company you work for should pay enough that you dont need to work extra elsewhere and the compnay you moonlight for should employ enough people to cover their tonnage etc and not rely on others to make up the numbers etc. Add to that what a hypocrite you look going for pay negotiations asking for more leave knowing all you do is work for some one else during said leave period.
          "Need" to work elsewhere because employer #1 doesn't pay enough is surely different to a desire to work elsewhere in order to earn more money for whatever purpose you choose to put it to. I don't see any hypocrisy in asking for more leave, it's more time to earn extra dosh elsewhere for those so inclined. I can understand that you don't want to moonlight, but I don't think you are justified in your criticisms of those who do.

          For the record, I enjoy my leave and am happy not to see a ship for as many months as I can get away with between appointments. However, why should I not be free to do as I wish during my time off? Basic liberties, freedom of stuff, etc...

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          • #6
            A 4 week trip as a 4th offshore based on current rates is worth 5k, which is a hefty whack and more than a few quid.

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            • #7
              I'm not sure that the 5k per 4 week trip is the norm? As for the offshore sector - are these vessels not DP? So requiring any prospective deckie for example to be qualified as a DPO with experience. I can then understand such high pay!

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              • #8
                http://www.seamanjobvacancy.com/2011...r-cable-vessel

                This was for an engineers position, don't think there is any further qualifications to sail on these in that capacity (?) other than experience in the field. Hopefully I will be offshore next sea phase which hopefully will be enough to get a foot in a door when qualified.
                Last edited by lazygenius; 2 February 2012, 12:15 PM. Reason: They're their there schoolboy mistake

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by size4riggerboots View Post
                  This was brought up in my HAL interview yesterday! Yes, there is a clause in the contract that says if you want to work on another ship during your leave period then you have to ask permssion. I'm hoping to do a few weeks here and there on the tall ships in my leave periods, I'm guessing they might not mind that, but remember your leave period is for R&R so that you can go back to the ship for the next contract in a good condition and ready for the fight! (As it were..)

                  I'm not saying that's the case for all ships, but it sounds reasonable.
                  Thats a good point. I'd have to do something during leave, I could definatly not watch jezza kyle on the couch all day, and the hours most people keep means being social during the day is a bit of a pain. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be away working all the time but the option to do so would be a boost.

                  Of course it's not something I would be sneaky about as it would be going in my discharge book for anyone who would be interested to see.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lazygenius View Post
                    Of course it's not something I would be sneaky about as it would be going in my discharge book for anyone who would be interested to see.
                    There are ways round that.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steve View Post
                      "Need" to work elsewhere because employer #1 doesn't pay enough is surely different to a desire to work elsewhere in order to earn more money for whatever purpose you choose to put it to. I don't see any hypocrisy in asking for more leave, it's more time to earn extra dosh elsewhere for those so inclined. I can understand that you don't want to moonlight, but I don't think you are justified in your criticisms of those who do.

                      For the record, I enjoy my leave and am happy not to see a ship for as many months as I can get away with between appointments. However, why should I not be free to do as I wish during my time off? Basic liberties, freedom of stuff, etc...
                      I disagree with that completely i'm afraid. If you are on a fixed contract of employment (e.g. X amount per year) I can guarantee that you company will have view to you "moonlighting" on other vessels. Main one being, you're being paid a lot of money to work on their vessel and you get a lot of leave to relax at the end of a trip so that you can come back nice and fresh. If you go off one ship and go on to anothers then come back to ours dog tired then you are more likely to have an accident. Now whilst we don't care if you wreck one of their ships, if you wreck one of ours through sheer mental fatigue then start looking around for another job in another industry as you'd be pretty much finished in the Marine one (remember, the shoreside part of the Maritime world is rather small and we all generally know one another). You're contract will most likely not say "you can work for no other but us" but it will most likely have a clause in there somewhere saying "We are your primary employer, no other work should have an impact on your role for us".

                      If you're on a rolling contract, then go nuts as technically you're unemployed once you're off the ship. However I do agree with Chiefy, it is hypocritical if you sit there demanding more leave and then you bugger off and join someone elses ship.

                      Originally posted by Steve View Post
                      There are ways round that.
                      None of them legal. Remember, your discharge book is like your passport, you're not allowed to doodle or make any alterations to it.
                      I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

                      All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by GuinnessMan View Post
                        Main one being, you're being paid a lot of money to work on their vessel and you get a lot of leave to relax at the end of a trip so that you can come back nice and fresh. If you go off one ship and go on to anothers then come back to ours dog tired then you are more likely to have an accident.
                        If you are leaving the first employer's ship knackered there's a big problem there to begin with. Is that how you felt when you were at sea as a junior engineer?

                        Leave is not there for you to recover from being overworked by an employer. It is your weekends, your annual leave, your evenings at home. All the bits of life you are missing out on by working at sea for that employer. It is no different to working multiple jobs for a non-seafarer - you sacrifice time off to make ends meet or to make more money or because you get bored in the evening.

                        If your contract with your main employer does prohibit or implicitly prohibit your employment at sea by another entity then it's a matter of contract/employment law between you and your employer and if you breach it you do so at your own risk. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't consider doing so if you feel the advantages outweigh the risks.

                        None of them legal. Remember, your discharge book is like your passport, you're not allowed to doodle or make any alterations to it.
                        Perfectly legal. Don't be daft, I'm not talking about fiddling with your DB, I'm talking about Regulation 25(1)(a)(ii) of the Merchant Shipping (Crew Agreements, List of Crew and Discharge of Seamen) Regulations 1991.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Steve View Post
                          If you are leaving the first employer's ship knackered there's a big problem there to begin with. You know what I mean here. You will not be as "rested or relaxed" as you would be if you'd had some time off and if you are mentally or physically fatigued then we are just paving the way towards an accident. Is that how you felt when you were at sea as a junior engineer? Care to enlighten me to exactly what you mean here or should we just leave this one before the mods go slapping wrists?

                          Leave is not there for you to recover from being overworked by an employer. It is your weekends, your annual leave, your evenings at home. All the bits of life you are missing out on by working at sea for that employer. It is no different to working multiple jobs for a non-seafarer - you sacrifice time off to make ends meet or to make more money or because you get bored in the evening. Yes, but it's also your time to rest and relax/

                          If your contract with your main employer does prohibit or implicitly prohibit your employment at sea by another entity then it's a matter of contract/employment law between you and your employer and if you breach it you do so at your own risk. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't consider doing so if you feel the advantages outweigh the risks. Contracts (including mine) generally say that they have no issues with you taking up a second job so long as the 2nd job doesn't get in the way of your first one. Id say thats fair and is why I don't do side jobs all that much anymore as I don't have the time for it.

                          Perfectly legal. Don't be daft, I'm not talking about fiddling with your DB, I'm talking about Regulation 25(1)(a)(ii) of the Merchant Shipping (Crew Agreements, List of Crew and Discharge of Seamen) Regulations 1991.Wow! Don't wave that *guidance* (emphasis on guidance) that would only apply to British Flag vessels too wildly now! ! Now lets all snap back to the real world. Nearly every large company I know of will want to see a discharge book for no other reason than they tend to trust that a little bit more than a piece of paper. Sure, most seafarers get both signed and the discharge book can be forged just as easily as the bit of paper but thats it. It doesn't have to make sense, thats just the way they do things. Before I forget, certain countries and organisations actually require you to have one if you want to set foot on their soil whilst you're sailing, so it's in your best interest to hand it over for signing. (e.g. Russia, Greece, etc)
                          My responses are in bold.
                          I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

                          All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Steve View Post
                            If you are leaving the first employer's ship knackered there's a big problem there to begin with. Is that how you felt when you were at sea as a junior engineer?
                            I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who isn't tired after a contract? 7 days a week, maximum rest possible (if your head hits the pillow say 10 minutes after watch, and waking up 30 minutes prior to morning watch) is a 7h 15min sleep, less if in port, 6 on, 6 off, being woken up at all hours for mooring, how can you possibly not be tired? Yes I know the work and rest hours obligation, but even adhering to that, after a 9 port Asia schedule, I don't think anyone wouldn't want to sleep for a week.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tlloyd1983 View Post
                              I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who isn't tired after a contract? 7 days a week, maximum rest possible (if your head hits the pillow say 10 minutes after watch, and waking up 30 minutes prior to morning watch) is a 7h 15min sleep, less if in port, 6 on, 6 off, being woken up at all hours for mooring, how can you possibly not be tired? Yes I know the work and rest hours obligation, but even adhering to that, after a 9 port Asia schedule, I don't think anyone wouldn't want to sleep for a week.
                              re : hours of rest .

                              If you are leaving a ship with a massive "hangover" as it were then you are not geting enough hours of rest. Your company is obliged to provide you with enough hours of rest to carry out your job with the minimum of the effects of fatigue.

                              For this reason then I don't feel like you can justify leave as a time to rest, but a time to enjoy personnel freedom as you so wish, be it work if you want or rest. I dare say if you want to work you should be allow to, and so long as you are working for a legitimate company they should afford you the same hours of rest, so the " 6 weeks to recuperate" does not really stand up to scrutiny.

                              I'm one of these weird people that think sitting about has adverse effect on me, and that after bumming around doing nout does nothing for me and makes me more lazy going back into work!!!

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