Would you pay towards your training?

[CharlieDelta]

I'm surprised the news that cadets might be expected to contribute financially to their training hasn't sparked off a discussion already!

Have a read of our article, interested in hearing opinions!

[Albatross]

Yes, I would.

I'm not wanting to join the Merchant Navy for the free tuition, but for freedom away from home, to see a wee bit more of the world than my house, work, shop, my house again amongst various other reasons.

When I first decided I wanted to become a part of the MN, I was very surprised to find that its a no fee course and would of been prepared to pay for part of it it if it already wasn't paid for half paid for. Money isn't the be all and end all of why I wanted to join, but if none of the course was paid for, it would be a ?50,000 course right? Seriously wouldn't be able to do it then, which would be a shame.

With that said, lets hope they 'sea' (sorry I had to!) sense and keep the funding, it is essential to letting people get a foothold in the aging profile of the MN, and not something to get rid of to help people join.

Just my 2 pence

[MarkW]

It would have made me think twice about joining now, and maybe i would wait until i was a bit older.
If it was run as a normal university course then it might be no problem, but with the current system of getting no student finance in phase 1 or 2 (for HND's) I would definitely not have been able to afford the course fees, possibly for many years.
If they do decide to start asking cadets to make a contribution to fees, or pay them all it will only be a bad thing for cadet recruitment and the industry.

[CharlieDelta]

Fom my reading on the topic, I think the worst case scenario would be tuition fees being paid by cadets. The fees depend on the course you're doing, and can be up to ?9,000 per year. However, this level is unlikely for cadetships. Southampton Solent, for example, have set tuition fees at ?7,800, and they might be lower for Foundation Degree/HND level courses. While a tuition fee loan from Student Finance could be used to cover the cost, this would effectively close off entry to those who've done a degree already.

Basically, there's less money in the pot with the SMarT cuts, and now it looks like costs will rise. Net effect = fewer cadets which leads on to concerns about the future of British officers.

In fairness, look at the airline pilot training regime. That used to be completely sponsored and now people are paying up to ?70,000 for their training, though their potential returns are huge.

[MarkW]

I think the worst case scenario would be tuition fees being paid by cadets. The fees depend on the course you're doing, and can be up to ?9,000 per year. However, this level is unlikely for cadetships. Southampton Solent, for example, have set tuition fees at ?7,800,

That sounds much more tolerable, There still could be the student finance HND phase 1 problem, but nothing is final, and it will probably all change again in the near future, hopefully for the better.

[CharlieDelta]

I think if this was to happen there might be a move to remove the alternative (HND) route, though this throws up a lot of problems.

It's all speculation, of course, but the MNTB are looking for parity across the colleges and that's going to be difficult when Glasgow are in a clearly advantageous position.

[Ducki52]

Hopefully this will turn out to be the Tory's usual trick of saying they'll cut deep in the preliminary report and then doing the sensible (-ish) thing when it comes to updating the statute book. I really dont know if I could afford to go through the training without the fees etc being paid. I'd probably struggle with the status quo. I just hope the wife has a nice paying job in a few months.

[Chiefy]

how are Glasgow at a better advantage? If you mean no fee's I thought that was only if you where actually Scottish, as companies like to send cadets "wherever" this negates the advantage, unless the entire MN is about to be over run with Scottish peoples

[CharlieDelta]

Good point actually, though I think you might be thinking of SAAS funding rather than the funding which enables Scottish institutions to charge very low tuition fees.

[Steve]

If you mean no fee's I thought that was only if you where actually Scottish... unless the entire MN is about to be over run with Scottish peoples

Isn't it already? You don't have to prove 3 generations of pure Scottish ancestry to not pay tuition fees in Scotland, you just have to live there.

[DaveThePlumber]

Can someone explain this ? Is it because the tuition fees in England ie wouldn't effect me if a was going to city Glasgow college !

[CharlieDelta]

Basically, at the moment universities receive government funding to keep fees low. The coalition government has withdrawn this funding, so universities will be charging the full cost of the course, up to a cap of ?9,000 per year. This needs to come from somewhere, and will mean extra costs for sponsor companies. This will either mean less cadets being sponsored or cadets being expected to contribute to tuition fees.

Scottish universities receive funding from the Scottish government and haven't made any changes, so tuition fees in Scotland will remain at the <?2000 per year mark, which is often completely paid by a grant fron SAAS, the Scottish student finance organisation.

[alistairuk]

Personally, I think it would put a lot of people off. Lets face it how many present applicants straight out of school (or even from university) could afford it. Not to mention the older applicants who, and there are a few, give up their present career to change to the merchant navy?

Since I can't find the cost of the actual academic course - but assume its the maximum 'tuition fee' cost, although it is a commercial course so it could be exempt from them! But if we take only the "short courses" (ie: BFF+EFA+PST+PSSR+PSCRB+MFA+GMDSS+AFF+EDH+NARAS(O)) its a nice ?5406 for what is essentially 6-7 weeks Plus you would have the costs to the MCA to add on to that as well.

Essentially you are applying to a company to work for them. If you worked for any other company in any other industry and you required "training" you would expect your employer to pay for it!

As a comparison look at the airline industry - 9/11 (and its subsequent issues) wiped out all the airlines sponsored schemes pretty much overnight - ok, it didn't stop pilots going through, but it made it a hell of a lot harder - and more expensive - for those that did. Nowadays most airlines that have a pilot training scheme (with very few spaces for the number of applicants) now essentially give "grants" which you work off working for the airline, or pay back over years once your finished and find a job.

With regards to my fellow Scottish people. You guys appear to be misunderstanding what happens up here. Basically your education is free (for the first time you do something); For most people this means you leave school, goto university and do a BSc/Hons degree, if you choose to do Masters etc. then this is also free. If however after getting a degree you start another degree of equal or lower level (or have to repeat a year after having started a year of study) then your tuition will not be covered and you are liable to pay the costs for that year. Through the scheme Scottish students can study anywhere in the UK for their first degree essentially for free.

[size4riggerboots]

I can't imagine that cadetship fees would become more expensive than any other university course, and the funding would be the same loans-wise surely. I would have had a problem as I had done three years of a degree course before I came to it though, but I still would have made it happen, somehow, possibly by going a longer route working my way up through the rating system.

I imagine that, as Alistair says, it would put some people off, but there is a high dropout rate anyway, which seems (from my experience) to mostly be from the people who thought "Oh! Free course!" and then found that it was a lot harder than they imagined it woud be, both in terms of academic requirements and personal fortitude at sea. Maybe having to pay for it would serve to sort the wheat from the chaffe?

[The H]

All I can say is that I am glad that I have chosen this career already and that this looks like it may stem the future number of cadets.