Student Funding and Sticking it to the man

[lazygenius]

I have ANOTHER student funding question, this is aimed at FD Engineering cadets at all the UK colleges apart from STC.

I have had a long and frustrating stand off with the finance people at STC about the eligiblilty of my course (FD Marine Engineering) for student funding.

The crux of their argument is that the course is part time, therefore not eligible for funding, so they wont add the course to the SAAS ( as I'm Scottish) list of eligible courses. The long and short of it is SAAS don't recognise it as an eligible course off the back of college's action = no student support.

I have found information on the 2011-2012 SAAS website which states a 3 year sandwich course should be treated the same (funding wise) as a 2 year foundation degree. Also in the colleges prospectus the course is detailed as a 3 year full time sandwich course. Pretty cast iron arguement if you ask me?!

I am curious to know if any other people have been granted funding for the same course?

[The H]

I am fairly sure that the course is full time (As I managed to get council tax exemption). Bearing in mind that we actually do roughly the same number of week as a university student, however, rather than bumming around over summer we have to work at sea.

[lazygenius]

We had a council tax exemption aswell. This seems to be a grey area, with no body at the college offering a definate answer to "what constistutes a f/t course"

At the moment we are doing 21 hours a week, over 31 weeks. Our previous course leader told us that the course is "sold" as it were, as a 40 hour a week course, with the remaining 19 hours a week made up from study time.

I herd rumours that the Warsash FD marine engineering cadets were getting student funding form their relevant funding bodies, could anyone confirm this?

I have a meeting with the head of business at STC next Weds about this.

[jcwilson91]

A lotof people in GCNS who started in jan of 2011 got SAAS funding. They were on the PD course and us HNC boyos will be getting funding in phase 3

[jcwilson91]

A lotof people in GCNS who started in jan of 2011 got SAAS funding. They were on the PD course and us HNC boyos will be getting funding in phase 3

[steamer]

Im at WMA doing the HND. The course that you are doing is f/t NOT sandwich (advice from the university) and you need to make sure that you do not apply for tuition fee support as that will invalidate your application. PD/FD can apply from day one, while HND/HNC must wait until phase three. All cadets recieve council tax exemption from the very start.

Hope that helps.

[ETwhat?]

there was a change at stc last year of how the course was either counted or compiled and at that time they said that we wouldnt be eligible. good luck in getting them to change their minds

[lazygenius]

Cheers for the feedback all.

What annoys me the most is they have no arguement to deny funding. If they could put down in certain terms why the course is deemed part time then I could accept it. Whenever I have challenged anyone about it, the standard replys are rambled mutterings "eh something to do with contact hours or something" or " its because of your sea phases"

Hardly definative.

Another point is the course prospectus it actually states the course is full time! By reading that, people are going to be mislead into thinking they can apply for student funding, only for STC to take it away on what seems nothing more than whim.

[lazygenius]

Steamer : What course are you on? I know the FD deckies are eligible for the funding at STC, but us FD Engine ones are not. Are you saying the FD Engine people are warsash are eligible?

[steamer]

Of course!! Take it up with your student union, perhaps, they might be able to help...otherwise talk to Nautilus.

[dawg]

The answer.

What steamer says is correct. FD courses are full time, you are eligible for funding. That is 100% fact, and there are FD cadets with full funding.

It sounds like you have made the error of ticking the wrong boxes on the form.

Section 4, pages 10-11

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@educ/documents/digitalasset/dg_183332.pdf

(The same applies in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland)

Section c

The correct box to tick is "Full time foundation degree"

You have probably ticked "Full-time involving a placement (sandwich course)", this is incorrect; do not tick it.

A "sandwich placement" is a whole year in industry within a full-time proper degree. It is not relevant to foundation degrees: a sea phase is not a "sandwich placement".

Section f

For each Term, you tick University or College.

Do not tick anything in Section g.

That is it.



What you are probably going to have to do is write a letter to them stating that you completed the form incorrectly, and to state that your course is full-time in the UK and does not involve any placements. The student support department of your college should assist you with this, as they should have a direct contact with the SLC.

The mistakes you have made are:
1 to assume that the SLC know what they are doing; and
2. to give them too much information.

This organisation is legendary for it's incompetence and errors; and the people who process your applications are not experts.
Nautilus and Student Unions are also not experts on student finance either.

[CharlieDelta]

Check your course to see that you do actually do 120 credits per academic year too. At Warsash for example, deck HND is eligible for phases 3 and 5. Deck FD is eligible for phases 1 and 3. Not sure about engineery types.

[dawg]

All Foundation degrees have 240 credits. All foundation degree courses are eligible for some form of student loans funding, regardless of what is studyied or if there is a sponsor; who the sponsor is; or how much they pay. HNDs can vary in how many credits they give depending on subject and institution.

FdSc Navigation is spread out over even longer than FdEng Marine Engineering, it stands to reason that if you can get student funding for the former, that you can get it for the latter. FdEng students at marine colleges who have completed the forms correctly are in receipt of funding.

The factors that might prevent you getting any are not to do with what subject you are doing, but on more general things like UK residency, previous study, parental income; and these things apply to all students whose courses are elegible.

[CharlieDelta]

An HND is 240 credits. What you mean is that different institutions may not recognise the full credit value. However, this also applies to FD courses. If you want to transfer your credits and study something completely unrelated, the receiving institution will not recognise the full 240 credits from either course.

To be eligible, the course must include 120 credits per academic year. So the Deck FD covers 120 credits in years one and two. The third year has no FD teaching and is not eligible.

The Deck HND has no HND level teaching in year one, so it's not eligible. The second and third years have 120 credits each.

Apply this to the Engine FD - does it cover 120 credits in each academic year? That can only be answered by looking at the programme specification for the actual course. If the 240 credits are spread over more than two academic years, then there's a problem.

[MEJG]

As an FdEng at WMA i'm going to just wade in with my bit of knowledge and say that i seem to be getting the payments, have had them from phase 1 and should continue to get them to the end of the course