What do you think about the women on board as an officer?

[deckcadet85]

What do you think about the women on board as an officer of the navigator or captain? - wrr...


I would not want to have a woman captain.

[steamer]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

I have approved this post because I believe that the original poster deserves the abuse about to be unleashed on him. Give him your honest opinion boys and girls....

[Faust]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

Oh dear...

[RNR]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

I don't even know where to begin...

Why should it make a difference if a woman is an officer or captain at all? It doesn't make her any less qualified! Unless your insecure about your own position in life generally and thinking being a rank under a woman somehow seems to show your own shortcomings to the rest of the world? If anything its a good thing as I'm sure we can all do with someone of the opposite sex to communicate with from time to time, what a boring place the world would be without women.

[kayak]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

Can we get the link to that girl removed though please...

[mnwanabe]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

your in trouble :P

[Steve]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

The problem with female officers is often not their professional ability, but rather their conduct. In a male dominated environment, they play on their femininity to gain advantage. Women do this in the shore world anyway, but it sticks out so much more in the 90% male environment of a ship. This doesn't apply to all female officers, but it is a recurring issue in my experience. I have nothing against female officers in principle, it just happens that I have issues with the professional and personal conduct of the majority of those I've sailed with. Of course I have issues with the professional and personal conduct of some of the male officers I've sailed with, but the proportion is lower.

(Is that the kind of abuse steamer was looking for?)

For those inevitably responding in automatic PC-bot-tastic defence of the females, please include whether you have actual experience of 1) all male ships and 2) working with female officers.

[GuinnessMan]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

I don't even know where to begin...

Why should it make a difference if a woman is an officer or captain at all? It doesn't make her any less qualified! Unless your insecure about your own position in life generally and thinking being a rank under a woman somehow seems to show your own shortcomings to the rest of the world? If anything its a good thing as I'm sure we can all do with someone of the opposite sex to communicate with from time to time, what a boring place the world would be without women.

I agree with the above.

Gender is neither here nor there when it comes to this industry. If you are in-capable of working with or for different genders then perhaps this industry isn't for you as we have no time for that sort of rubbish.

Perhaps you could attempt to provide an explanation for why you wouldn't want to work for a female captain before the women around here tear you to shreds....

[Brimbo]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

what a retarded OP!

[chris]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

For those inevitably responding in automatic PC-bot-tastic defence of the females, please include whether you have actual experience of 1) all male ships and 2) working with female officers.

RNR, Guinessman - Are you going to answer Steve?

[dawg]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

I like ladies.

[RNR]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

For those inevitably responding in automatic PC-bot-tastic defence of the females, please include whether you have actual experience of 1) all male ships and 2) working with female officers.

RNR, Guinessman - Are you going to answer Steve?

Steve/Chris I will be honest I do not have experience of working with qualified female officers but my point was not based soley on ships. I have seen this sort of thing from some people in many different jobs I have worked in, and it always seems to come down to the persons own insecurities being placed on someone more successful who is in a minority (woman in high business management in some companies or women officers on ships). In a twisted sort of way this gives the insulter a sort of self-feeling sense of superioity over the other person.

Also, my point still stands that if a woman officer is as qualified as a male officer why should it make a difference? Its madness to think just because she doesn't own a trouser snake she shouldn't be allowed to be promoted in the same way a man is. And no, its not pc stuff i'm coming out with, I myself have many gripes with the madness of political correctness these days, but its just common sense. In no way I am suggesting that a woman should recieve special treatment for being in a minority (such as quicker promotion) and if women choose to take up this career they should expect to follow the same rules as men, end of. But this guys ideas are way out of date. Come on people, its not the 1800s anymore!

[dawg]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

I'm not convinced by the argument that someone's antipathy "always" comes down to someone's insecurities etc...
The reason being that this statement rather shuts down debate and fosters self-censorship preventing situations where there may be legitimate grievances or rational arguments that challenge the "new consensus" from being aired, which is unhealthy, and a recipe for complacency. Sometimes the minority card is ruthlessly played to gain advantage in the work environment, which amounts to a kind of inverse bullying.

I've had several women bosses in my time; I dunno if I could say that more of the women were bad bosses than the men, but they tend to stick in the mind more, perhaps because they are women.
e.g. I always feel like the best boss I ever had was a woman (mind you in the same organisation, I also had the worst boss ever, also a woman); with hindsight, I may have forgotten how good or bad the men were, because they don't stick in the memory as much.

Many men prefer working with men instead of women, because it's easier to relax. Men have a particular way of bonding and building a rapport with each other at work and at play, and it is not generally the same as that of women. When you have a mixed working environment, it seems that men usually have to adapt more to not upset the culture of women than the other way round... you feel you have to watch what you say more, because as we all know, in social situations, men generally behave a bit "better" when there are women around... it's natural.
I suspect this is probably the essence of what the original OP was trying to articulate.

I think the point is that your experience of working with women and men respectively is coloured by the fact that you are usually a member of the same; or opposite gender.
Another point is that some types of job and some sectors are dominated by one gender or another, which also colours your perception.
This leads to my final point, that women and men are not the same, and so it is naive or disingenuous to question why there should be a difference; there is a difference, and that difference can be a source of benefits as well as disadvantages.
It's all very well making pretty sounding statements about everyone in theory is equal etc., but in practice in the real world, everyone is not equal, and the world does not conform to a neat left-wing mathematical model of morality.

If you reflect on your experience of the world as it is, rather than as you would like it to be... Is there really such a problem in giving men or women "special treatment" for a justifiable reason...? e..g: favouring women deck officers at hand to deal with children and elderly passengers on a cruise ship seems like an advantage; favouring men for heavy lifting and security seems like an advantage. It seems reasonable to recognise the differences and use them to your advantage; which in the real world, is what arguably happens, regardless of any legislation.
The same applies to any minority, if it suits your business model or activity, it's arguably logical to want people whose presence helps rather than hinders you achieving your objectives.
AIUI, the reason why women are usually not promoted is because of the whole dimension of childbirth and family, which has obvious physical and financial consequences. The incidence of women being less ambitious for the things men want, and opting for family over career seems to be "under-stressed".

(I never intended to write this much btw I hope some of it makes sense at least)

[Chiefy]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

v 2.0

It has come to this? Cadets with no experience claiming women arent any good at sea and that they wouldnt like a female Captain, I assume this extends to female Chief Engineers too? I would worry more about the bastards who are already senior officers and the hard time they will give you just for being a cadet, for they still exist, these dinosaurs who think cadets are the lowest form of life and see neither gender or age in fact dont even see cadets. Luckily like misogenists they are getting fewer and further between but trust me there are still a few hanging on in there.

Yes indeed some girls play the girl card, it is also true that women (generally) dont have the same physical strength as men, so what? I know plenty of men who strugle to lift a 30kg drum of chemical from the steering gear to the place they are needed, just do what the Health and Safety always tell us to do, get a mate, get a sack barrow whatever, but do not hurt yourself.

Having sailed with plenty of women of every rank over the years I cant say I ever had an issue, apart from the odd occasion when a 4th Engineer turned up to a black out smelling much nicer than I would expect (for a man at 0300) and knowing the only female on board was the 3rd mate and they most certainly werent seeing each other!!!!! Hmmmm?! Event that isnt an issue but made for good comedy once the lights where on and they had been "outed" as a couple at least we knew where to find them if they failed to answer thier "own phone" in thier own cabins

What can I say treat people as you find them and as they treat you. If they are twonks then that is thier issue not yours. But really you have issues if you think women cannt comand a ship...............and maybe a bit too much free time.

[GuinnessMan]

Re: What do you think about the women on board as an officer

In answer to Steve's question, I have worked on all male vessels and with female officers at sea and I've never had a problem and they work just as well as the male counterparts. Granted, some might play on the femininity a bit, but that's down to the Chief's to sort out and deal with (normally by telling them to get back on with the job and stop f**king around).