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  • Not got UK qualifications? - You need to read this FIRST.

    Recently I have had a number of conversations with potential cadets who are EEA citizens, who are eligible to apply for a cadetship under residency rules, but when they apply they are not successful. Having also spoken to recruiters about the reasons why they fail to get an interview I now have a more complete picture and understand why they are sometimes getting knocked back.

    Scenario:

    A potential cadet from Poland, who has a degree from a Polish University and who has lived in the UK for 4 years applies for a cadetship. On the form he puts down his degree but where he is asked for his GCSE and A level results he puts nothing down... Because he does not have GCSE results.

    The problem with this is that there is a MINIMUM GCSE requirement for HNC / HND in both Maths and Science. Even for the Foundation Degree route you still HAVE to have GCSE grades in Maths and Science.

    So the recruiter gets your application form and/or CV and because you cannot prove you meet the minimum requirements then you are dismissed immediately, even though you have put down all 3 of your degrees and think you are being ignored because you are over qualified. WRONG! Because you do not have GCSE and/or A level grades on your form you are UNDER qualified.....

    It does not matter how many colleges you talk to and how much they tell you that you meet the requirements. If the recruiter does not know what you actually have (and it's UK equivalent) you are dead in the water.

    Solution:


    There is an organisation that can help you...

    www.naric.org.uk

    You need to register on the website and then pay £55.20 for a Statement of Comparability. You scan and send them copies of all your certificates from overseas and you get back A Statement of Comparability (SOC) which states, in English, what your overseas qualifications equate to in the UK. However the SOC does not provide a comparability statement for the grades you obtained. You will need to provide evidence of your grades to the recruiter by way of copies of your original certificates and a statement saying (for example) "A pass at this level is grades from 1 to 5 with 1 being the highest, and grades 6 to 8 being a fail." So if an employer specifies a B in Maths and your SOC says you have a GCSE equivalent in Maths and you have a grade 2 then you need to prove that a grade 2 is the equivalent to a B.

    Here is an example of a Statement of Comparability

    If you need to have a separate certificate for each subject then you will have to pay a further £24.00 for EACH certificate. However, it is my understanding that recruiters just need to see the Statement of Comparability to have confidence in inviting you to interview or offering you a cadetship. You MAY have to provide the college with individual certificates for each subject that is relevant - such as Maths and Science - later but I know you will gladly pay for 2 or 3 certificates to get your dream job?

    So, in answer to your question - did I get turned down because I am from Greece / Slovakia / Norway? then the answer is a definate "NO". You got turned down because the recruiter did not know you reached the minimum requirements and they do not have the time to check each persons overseas qualifications when there are 30 applicants per job.

    Make the recruiters job easier. Make sure you answer the questions before they ask them and give them no excuse to turn you down, not because of your nationality, but because they have no idea what your qualifications are............ finally make sure that by having the SOC that you fill in all the boxes on the application form or add all of the detail to your CV and provide a copy of the SOC with it.

    I hope this helps answer the question.

    Good luck,

    Ian
    Last edited by Hatchorder; 19th March 2015, 06:08 PM. Reason: Changed EU to EEA - factual error
    "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
    "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

    "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

  • #2
    Great advice HO.

    I understand that the admissions team at each Nautical College will check your qualifications for you and how they compare to UK. I am aware of a couple that have done this in the past, as after all you are a potential customer and it is in their interests to help.

    If you can attach a letter or e-mail from STC, Warsash et al stating you meet their entry requirements to your application this removes all element of doubt for the recruiters.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by newbie View Post
      Great advice HO.

      I understand that the admissions team at each Nautical College will check your qualifications for you and how they compare to UK. I am aware of a couple that have done this in the past, as after all you are a potential customer and it is in their interests to help.

      If you can attach a letter or e-mail from STC, Warsash et al stating you meet their entry requirements to your application this removes all element of doubt for the recruiters.
      I am also aware that some potential cadets have contacted recruiters saying that such and such at xyz college has checked my qualifications and said I meet the minimum only for the recruiter to contact the college to be told - nobody spoke to me......

      I am also aware of people who comment on here saying "abc from xyz recruiter told me this" only for me to get an email from the recruiter later saying - not me!

      I know the colleges can help you, but I believe for the sake of accuracy and making sure it is factually correct I think paying the £55 will give you a guaranteed answer that is also given in a good timescale. By all means people can contact the colleges but you are not guaranteed a response that recruiters will accept. Also there is a chance that someone could alter an email to say what they want and I don't know that I would trust an email as proof if I was a recruiter.

      Also, thanks to the recruiter who pointed out my error of saying EU when it should be EEA.

      Ian
      "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
      "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

      "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cadetships funded by the UK taxpayer should only be available to UK citizens.

        If a non-UK citizen wants to follow a UK based training scheme they should get their own country to fund it or fund it themselves. Not 1 pence of UK taxpayer money should go towards it.

        We have enough of our own unemployed citizens to deal with without dishing out UK funds to people who are not from our country.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by marlinspike View Post
          Cadetships funded by the UK taxpayer should only be available to UK citizens.

          If a non-UK citizen wants to follow a UK based training scheme they should get their own country to fund it or fund it themselves. Not 1 pence of UK taxpayer money should go towards it.

          We have enough of our own unemployed citizens to deal with without dishing out UK funds to people who are not from our country.
          "A potential cadet from Poland, who has a degree from a Polish University and who has lived in the UK for 4 years applies for a cadetship.". He's likely to have paid much more tax into the Exchequer than a 16 year old UK citizen has.
          io parlo morse

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by marlinspike View Post
            Cadetships funded by the UK taxpayer should only be available to UK citizens.

            If a non-UK citizen wants to follow a UK based training scheme they should get their own country to fund it or fund it themselves. Not 1 pence of UK taxpayer money should go towards it.

            We have enough of our own unemployed citizens to deal with without dishing out UK funds to people who are not from our country.
            You must be the life and soul of the party people....

            By eck, we've even found your picture!

            I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.....

            All posts here represent my own opinion and not that of my employer.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks Ian I am pretty sure many like me will find this thread useful. Speaking from my own experience I can tell that I have encountered same issues starting with filling in the application forms. I have started applying in January without any knowledge what to write when being asked about my GCSE Grades. In February I had done all the Statements of Comparability with Naric and I can say with a bit more certainty that I more than meet the entry requirements holding a Master's Degree, a Bachelor's Degree, not mentioning the Baccalaureate Diploma which is considered comparable to GCE AS and every subject is at least comparable to GCSE Grades A-C, I have always been a good student having the higher grades at school and university. Although it is worth mentioning that there is no such institution in the UK that will tell your Grades equivalent, the college has its own International Relations Department where they can provide this information and tell if you are eligible or not. That's what I did next I went to the College at the Open Days asking about my qualifications, had a word with the Head of School of Professional Studies and I received his confirmation in an email saying that I fully meet their entry requirements, have also passed the IELTS for English requirements, done some STCW training, ENG1 etc. Still I will be honest after applying to all the companies none of them have replied till now at least for an interview. Two recruiters did replied saying that at this occasion your application is unsuccessful without mentioning the reasons and that was it I haven't received at least an email from any of the companies inviting to an assessment or interview. Obviously I will keep going as I just need to get an interview to prove them that I am really determined to pursue a career at sea.

              Thanks Ian for this post. Appreciate your help!

              Comment


              • #8
                Vlad,

                Glad that the information was helpful but it seems that you have already done some of the work. However, when you completed application forms did you fill them in completely and send a copy of your SOC? Did you check and recheck and get someone else to check your application form? Did you get feedback from those that you were unsuccessful with?

                As to the comments that some people never even responded, I am afraid that that is the norm rather than a nationality issue. Some companies do not contact you if you are not successful, others will just tell you that you were not successful, very few, if any, will tell you why, they are just too busy. So do not take it personally, do not personalise it, try and try again, polish your application process and forms and CV and keep getting feedback and help from all sorts of people. One piece of advice I would give is to not concentrate on your degrees if they are in non related subjects. That just prove you can study. The only time you should make a big deal about them is if they are in Maths, Physics or engineering. Focus on your leadership and team skills and make sure your CV is as good and focused a it can be. Check out my article on writing your cv if you have not already done so.

                Regards,

                Ian
                "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
                "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

                "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I suspect we've found the UKIP supporter... I'll get my coat
                  io parlo morse

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marlinspike View Post
                    Cadetships funded by the UK taxpayer should only be available to UK citizens.

                    If a non-UK citizen wants to follow a UK based training scheme they should get their own country to fund it or fund it themselves. Not 1 pence of UK taxpayer money should go towards it.

                    We have enough of our own unemployed citizens to deal with without dishing out UK funds to people who are not from our country.
                    So - it looks like we have found the Daily Mail reader in our midst.......



                    Marlinspike, if there was a voting button with a thumbs down on it I would think many of the people on this forum would have clicked on it for this comment. I know I would have.

                    There are rules about how things are funded, and in my opinion whatever is needed to get more UK cadetships is fine by me. If that means that in order to offer that funding the government had to make it open to EEA applicants that meet residency rules then so be it. The rules are written and we cannot argue with that. By all means try and find out why that rule is there - but I would suspect it was an EU constraint to offering the funding.

                    As others have said though, people who have come in from overseas and met residency rules have also probably worked here as well and paid tax and NI. How many cadets start a cadetship funded by taxpayers that have joined straight from school? To be honest, as many officers meet the requirements to not pay tax on their earnings because of time spent out of the country, I think your comment is just a little bit rich!

                    Providing people qualify and meet the rules then as far as I am concerned they have as much of a right to a cadetship as you and I. If they get the cadetship on merit then I have no complaints - they were obviously the best candidate for the job.

                    Personally I cringe at "Empire" opinions on work and work ethic - I have met many people of many nationalities who have a better work ethic than most UK citizens - pick the right person for the job I say.

                    Ian
                    "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
                    "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

                    "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In case people have never read it , as a recipient of smart funding this also applies to you all.

                      MGN 455
                      proficient in spoken and written English and must state an intention to be ordinarilyresident in the UK following completion of their training



                      Under freedom of movement EU rules the UK can not discriminate between the different nationals of the EU, the UK can discriminate in the eyes of the EU between its own nationals and anyone who wishes to address that there is The Equality Law 2010. Human Rights law etc.
                      The following explains it quite well.




                      http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/B...?bp-id=sn06783

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Midge View Post
                        Under freedom of movement EU rules the UK can not discriminate between the different nationals of the EU, the UK can discriminate in the eyes of the EU between its own nationals
                        and we do.. EU nationals are entitled to have their tuition for higher education payed for (if studying in Scotland) - same as us scots... But those of you who are English or Welsh or from other misc. parts of the UK still have to pay :-)
                        “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn’t do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.”

                        – Mark Twain
                        myBlog | @alistairuk | flickr | youtube Views and opinions expressed are those of myself and not representative of any employer or other associated party.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by alistairuk View Post
                          and we do.. EU nationals are entitled to have their tuition for higher education payed for (if studying in Scotland) - same as us scots... But those of you who are English or Welsh or from other misc. parts of the UK still have to pay :-)
                          UK nationals outside of the UK don't have the same access to any of the UK when it comes to student loans or if they have been in the UK and move away for a year or two and moved back they don't, regardless of how long they have been a tax payer, but they do for anything else.....if you come from Switzerland ( not in the EU) then that's fine, they signed up for free movement, though their referendum last year they voted to change that. Misc UK nationals never qualify for student grants maintenance .

                          Not been challenged in law yet.
                          This RUK was an argument in the Scottish independence and education.
                          I have often wondered how long the smart clause expects you to be ordinary resident in the Uk, presumably forever, but it is contrary to EU law to restrict your rights as a worker.....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hatchorder View Post
                            So - it looks like we have found the Daily Mail reader in our midst.......



                            Marlinspike, if there was a voting button with a thumbs down on it I would think many of the people on this forum would have clicked on it for this comment. I know I would have.

                            There are rules about how things are funded, and in my opinion whatever is needed to get more UK cadetships is fine by me. If that means that in order to offer that funding the government had to make it open to EEA applicants that meet residency rules then so be it. The rules are written and we cannot argue with that. By all means try and find out why that rule is there - but I would suspect it was an EU constraint to offering the funding.

                            As others have said though, people who have come in from overseas and met residency rules have also probably worked here as well and paid tax and NI. How many cadets start a cadetship funded by taxpayers that have joined straight from school? To be honest, as many officers meet the requirements to not pay tax on their earnings because of time spent out of the country, I think your comment is just a little bit rich!

                            Providing people qualify and meet the rules then as far as I am concerned they have as much of a right to a cadetship as you and I. If they get the cadetship on merit then I have no complaints - they were obviously the best candidate for the job.

                            Personally I cringe at "Empire" opinions on work and work ethic - I have met many people of many nationalities who have a better work ethic than most UK citizens - pick the right person for the job I say.

                            Ian
                            No I read the guardian and support the Green party.

                            Our country is in massive debt and is running an astronomical budget deficit, with an NHS seriously short on funding, cutbacks in education, policing and other essential services, but yet we can afford the luxury of paying for the education of people who are not even from this country.

                            What benefit is it to the UK if we pay for a citizen from the EEA to go to sea? There is a chance that they might chose to live in the UK after they qualify and therefore spend their earnings in our country injecting cash into our economy, but there is also a higher chance of them moving back to their home country where most of their friends and family are, and where they most likely have cheaper property, meaning that there is no benefit to the UK whatsoever.

                            You could use the argument that a citizen of the UK could just as easily work at sea outside UK waters getting all their tax back and live out with the UK e.g. Thailand etc.. meaning that there is also no benefit to the UK economy, as they wouldn’t be spending their salary here either. But on the balance of probabilities, in general, a citizen from the UK will spend more of their money in the UK than a non-citizen, therefore meaning that there by paying for their education, there may be a big net financial gain to the UK economy over the lifetime of their career once the cost of their training is taken into account.

                            It is not even that difficult to become a UK citizen anyway, needing 5 years residency with some other criteria. If someone applied that was originally from an EEA area, but had taken up citizenship, it would indicate that they may be interested in helping to improve our country, as opposed to just sponging off it.

                            But as has been mentioned, under EU law there is not much we can do about this if we want to keep offering the funding to our own, unless there comes a day we don't need to follow EU law...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You said in your original post " Not 1 pence of UK taxpayer money should go towards it."

                              In the case of the theoretical Pole he is a UK taxpayer as is anyone who satisfies the residence requirements for smart funding. Anyone who applied for British citizenship would have been a UK taxpayer for at least five years.
                              io parlo morse

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