Engine v Deck

[BMcGrath]

Just something I was thinking earlier,
(From what I've seen, and I may be wrong or whatever) There seems to be a lot more Deck officers (cadets included) than Engine.

Do intakes at recruiting companies tend to take on more deck cadets than engine cadets roughly? Or is there a greater demand for deck than engine within the industry?

Cheers guys

[chris]

Or a greater drop out rate on the deck side for whatever reason?

[Midge]

There is a lack of data but this makes interesting reading.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...stics-2013.pdf

[BMcGrath]

There is a lack of data but this makes interesting reading.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...stics-2013.pdf

Thanks for that, one part that caught my eye was:

"The number of Engine officers declined by 4 per cent from 2012 to 2013 to 4,910 continuing the downward trend seen since 2005.
The number of Deck officers increased by 2 per cent to 5,930 from 2012 to 2013 which is the first annual increase seen since 2007."

Do you think this will have an effect on job opportunities for cadets finishing their cadetships who unfortunately did not get a job offer from their sponsoring companies?

[Midge]

Thanks for that, one part that caught my eye was:

"The number of Engine officers declined by 4 per cent from 2012 to 2013 to 4,910 continuing the downward trend seen since 2005.
The number of Deck officers increased by 2 per cent to 5,930 from 2012 to 2013 which is the first annual increase seen since 2007."

Do you think this will have an effect on job opportunities for cadets finishing their cadetships who unfortunately did not get a job offer from their sponsoring companies?

Hatchorder might be able to say how many of each sponsors recruit he was running the thread, but he has been updating it so it only shows the latest position.
The other thing to think about is how many of each type a ship needs, do ships have more deck than engineering? I'm a parent so no expert !
As far as I can remember sponsors had been taking on more deck than engine, the 2012 intake was down on the previous year because smart was being changed and uni costs went up so there were less taken on is my best guess.
The increase in deck maybe because less have retired or more engine have moved into shore based jobs, perhaps more opportunities? There could be a lot of reasons.
the stats show that there will be a lot of retiring officers in the next few years.
I also noticed that there are far more non Uk officers employed on uk flagged vessels.

If lots of deck officers are due to retire it will mean more jobs are available for younger officers to move into their jobs thereby creating more positions/ promotions for the junior officers, that is if those jobs are not filled by other non uk officers at perhaps lower salaries.

I hope there are jobs going for cadets who's sponsor don't offer jobs, as I would quite like my son to get a job too!
If I have time later this week I shall have a search and see if there are any stats around cadets, you are not the only person interested I know there are other parents who are too.
Anyone else have any ideas?

[BMcGrath]

yeah, as you've rightly pointed out there could be a number of reasons. Hopefully opportunities are frequent for the cadets who don't stay with their sponsor. Is your son's sponsor likely to take him on after his cadetship? (I don't know I you wish to disclose the company name) but it seems different companies have different attitudes towards cadets.
I start in September so I'm yet to find out mine, my main focus is actually getting a good standard of training. As I see it a job at the end of the cadetship is a bonus.

It would be interesting to see what others take on this would be though.

[Midge]

yeah, as you've rightly pointed out there could be a number of reasons. Hopefully opportunities are frequent for the cadets who don't stay with their sponsor. Is your son's sponsor likely to take him on after his cadetship? (I don't know I you wish to disclose the company name) but it seems different companies have different attitudes towards cadets.
I start in September so I'm yet to find out mine, my main focus is actually getting a good standard of training. As I see it a job at the end of the cadetship is a bonus.

It would be interesting to see what others take on this would be though.

No he's with a scholarship organisation so they don't but they get the opportunity to sail on different ship types during their cadet ship then have an idea hopefully which area they have a preference for, which may over the time of a cadet ship be different to how they thought at the beginning.

[antijanner]

I may be biased in this, but at the end of the day, the engineering side of the job is not as well publicised as the deckside. Any documentary about ships concentrates on the Old Man & Mate & various Deck Jnrs & hands, the Galley dept, then maybe a snippet with the Chief.

The deck department is more visible & talked about & advertised basically, than the Engineroom. So naturally, they get the lions share of the applicants

[robson96]

there might be more deck cadets however there will be very little issue with you getting a job if you're an engineer. This is because lots of companies are trying to kick out the old and bring in the and on top of that the industry is also crying out for engineers they cant seem to get enough. If you don't get offered a job with your company at the end of your cadetship somebody else will quite happily have you

[All At Sea]

Don't know a great deal about the Engineering side of things (or, in all honesty, the deck side of things either for that matter...) but it certainly seems that engineering cadets are far less aprehensive about the prospect of struggling for a job relative to deck cadets upon qualifying.

Not sure what the demand is for each but I can say with certainly that colleges take on more deck than engine cadets. Form what I've seen in my college the ratio is about 2:1. Stands to reason (at least in my mind) that there would be more demand shoreside for engineers as the skillset would be more transferable, engineers are needed in many, many different industries, ship navigators/operators in not so many. Honestly if it wasn't for the fact that I would be a dreadful engineer that would certainly be the route I would have gone down!

[Midge]

I may be biased in this, but at the end of the day, the engineering side of the job is not as well publicised as the deckside. Any documentary about ships concentrates on the Old Man & Mate & various Deck Jnrs & hands, the Galley dept, then maybe a snippet with the Chief.

The deck department is more visible & talked about & advertised basically, than the Engineroom. So naturally, they get the lions share of the applicants

Heres a suggestion then why don't you write an article about the engineering side, and promote the different aspects of it. The cadet engineers could do a piece too about what they do at college, are there any shoreside ones on here that could do the same.
Perhaps better information from those that are actually doing it would be beneficial to those a thinking about which side to go on.
The same for the Deck and ETO's, GM has his video project could that be added in somewhere, or perhaps this is what's in the pipeline?
There are the occasional posts from companies perhaps they can enlighten everyone to what the job market is currently like this year for newly qualified officers, and why there are problems if any finding jobs, give some useful guide.
The sponsoring training organisations could tell us why the split is more deck than engine and ETO.
Better information makes better decisions.

[EH75]

From what I can see there are significantly more jobs for engineers once qualified but significantly more deck than engine cadets. Not sure of the reason for that. If I had my time again I would seriously considering applying to be an engineer...

[newbie]

The sponsoring training organisations could tell us why the split is more deck than engine and ETO.

To give you some figures... in the past 5 months we have received 432 applications - those who met the course entry criteria, of which 65% were Deck and 35% Engine (we don't sponsor ETO's). This is a typical split and doesn't vary much year on year.

Personally I think the difference in numbers (Deck v Eng) is swayed greatly by those companies who have a requirement to train Cadets but will not offer jobs upon graduation as an OOW. Therefore I assume it doesn't really matter to those companies which disciplines they take as long as they are fulfilling their training obligation. That is not to say they probably wouldn't want an equal split but if applications are heavily weighted towards Deck it may be a factor.

[Midge]

Newbie, as there seems to be quite a few posts saying that there are very few jobs for deck cadets, or often none, and from having a look myself it does seem to be that way. Why don't the recruiters take more engine cadets than deck if the companies don't really care what they have, wouldn't that the take the pressure of the lack of engineering officers a bit.

From all the info I have read there is consistently from many different areas, unions, companies, government saying there is a shortage of officers which is why smart carries on yet there appear to be a lack of junior jobs. Is it seagoing jobs the industry is short of or are they meaning the industry as a whole?
I wonder if it would make a difference if the requirement for sponsoring companies also included three months after qualification. Or would that make it difficult because some cadets may not want to work in a sector they trained in as cadets. Or would giving newly qualified cadets the option if they wanted be helpful.
It just seems to me it's a catch 22 there maybe some jobs but only if they have some experience.
Only when you see all the advertising to attract people to the career, it's quite glitzy, and mentions shortages etc, is this out of date or is it accurate, as it seems wrong to attract people when if the reality is, there are no jobs to be had for British officers anyway.

Ohh and how many complete training and qualify and are there any figures or stats anywhere?
Of course my view maybe completely off the mark and only a very small minority can't find work.
thanks!

[antijanner]

I have blogged quite a bit on it - http://antijanner.wordpress.com/cate...p-talk/page/4/

I'm open about work & all on my twitter as well between the whinging.

Note, these blog posts were a while ago, & as such the way I blog now has changed.

ta