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  • An update from SSTG:

    SSTG have just given me an update.

    Now, before all the doom and gloom merchants jump in saying that companies are only doing this for tonnage tax let me ask you a question.... If people know that there are some companies who are recruiting for their future needs and some are recruiting to train people just to get a tax break does it make any difference to your training? The answer is no..... Secondly, if someone else is picking up the bill for you to get 3 years training and experience and then letting you go is there any difference between this and University? The answer is YES - because at the end of University you can have debts upwards of £30,000.... My son did a standard cadetship and lived within his means throughout the 3 years so came out with no debt at all. So 3 years down the line you have a qualification and experience and a potential for employment. What you do with that is up to you - you are no different to any other person walking out of Uni (except the size of your debt!) - you have potential and a qualification, "get busy living or get busy dying" I say (Well I stole it from a film - but it says what I want to say!)

    I can remember all this same moaning when I was a cadet in the early 80's - robot ships were just over the horizon, British flag disappearing, etc. etc. My sponsor, because of a downturn, laid off EVERYONE in my intake. Two years before they had trained and kept 50 deck cadets - go figure! We were just unlucky - but we all found jobs. For those who knew shipping in the 80's there were some big names like my sponsor Ocean Fleets (Blue Funnel, Elder Dempster, OCL, Barber Lines and OIL all under one banner) that guaranteed their cadets jobs at the end - then there was a downturn..... These are just recycled moans folks - let us deal with what we know please! There are people out there offering cadetships - tonnage tax or otherwise the training is the same in reality - do with that news what you will.

    One of the questions I have asked recently is why there are so many recruited and it seems that the lifestyle is probably one of the biggest contributors to this. Some companies see about a 10% loss in the first sea phase because people cannot hack the life at sea. I get that - it is so different to anything you have experience of that you could describe to life at see to everyone you know - take them to sea for a month and every one of them would say "That was different to what I was expecting"

    Because of these losses - which can be as high as a third over the three years for some organisations, there is a need for top-ups in the cadet numbers. This is probably why some companies have places at short notice. They are constantly calculating the number of cadets they need to have for tonnage tax reasons and when people drop out they need to top up.

    There will also be many cadets who went through training for tonnage tax companies that got jobs at the end of it, possibly not with their training company but they have a job. Of course there are no guarantees, not even with the likes of some of the big trainers who supposedly keep all their cadets. There is no clause in the contract that says they will - but there is a clause that says if they want to you have to stay with them for a set period of time. This is still no guarantee of a job. You then have the same chance as any cadet who went through a tonnage tax company.

    Just one more piece of information for people to mull over. My best mate, who stayed at sea and who is a senior pilot for one of the big ports, was telling me last week that some pilotages are looking at going back to the old fashioned way of training pilots with a 7 year apprenticeship with no experience or tickets to their name. Nobody has done it yet - but there is talk. The reason is that there is a shortage of UK people with their Masters tickets. Some pilotages are recruiting pilots from overseas to get around the problem, but in general there is a shortage of well qualified and experienced Deck Officers. So staying put and getting Mates and Masters sounds like a good idea to me if you love the lifestyle and being on ships but fancy living at home most of the time.

    So for the nay sayers and trolls - move down the bus, this is not for you. Make room for those who want the information..............

    RANT OVER!

    Moving onto the topic of conversation.....

    SSTG have vacancies for a January/February 2017 start for 3 deck, 9 engineers and 4 ETOs. Companies that are offering sponsorship are CMA-CGM, Gardline Geo-Survey, Orient Overseas Container Lines, P&O ferries, Sea Truck ferries, TUI and Whitaker Tankers. I believe TUI is bringing a new ship into service next year, some of the others are top ups and ferries seem to be doing well at the moment as well.

    Anyone want a cadetship for January? - I suggest you get over to SSTG's website and fill out an application form. Do yourself a favour though - go through it all before you submit it and get someone else to do so as well.

    What are you waiting for? - Get applying!

    Good Luck.

    Ian

    *Turns desk on side, puts colander on head, straps yellow pages to his chest, arms himself with elastic bands and sharpened pencils to repel boarders, trolls and disaffected forum members and puts out a Pan Pan message - "Anyone fancy helping me out here?"*
    "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
    "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

    "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Dannybongo View Post
      Hi,

      I've just joined the forum, are there still any vacancies for early 2017 intakes? A cadetship is a career path I've only recently been exploring but it's consumed me for the last few week and I'm sold on the idea! Whilst I have sent off some applications for what I presume will be for the intakes of September 2017, I'd not tied down in anyway and could start early next year. If anyone has any information please sent me the details. Thanks
      Danny,

      I hope the above gives you food for thought - in answer to your question - yes, there are still cadetships for January available.....

      Regards

      Ian
      "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
      "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

      "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

      Comment


      • Ok I'm going to say this and I don't care if I get called a naysayer or a troll because this is important.

        DO NOT GO WITH A COMPANY WHICH DOES NOT EMPLOY BRITISH OFFICERS

        Ok so being sponsored by a company which is employing British officers gives you no guarantee of a job when you are qualified. However if a company has a policy of not employing British officers you defiantly will not get a job at the end of it.

        Being trained by British officers will not get you better training necessarily there a very good officers from around the world just as there are less good British ones. What however you will not get sailing with foreign officers are the connections and the reputation that is necessary to get you a job. Just look around at various websites there are no jobs advertised it is all through personal connections and recommendations that people get jobs now a days. You can work your arse off every day for 3 years be the best cadet in the world and have glowing reports from your senior officer but if the companies they work for and the people they have connections with have a policy against employing you because you are British you will never get a job.

        If your only offer for a cadetship is with a tonnage tax company who have no interest in you as a trainee and just see you as a tax avoidance scheme the best thing to do is wait, work on your applications and reapply for the next intake. Its far better to be waiting before your cadetship than to be unemployed at the end of it.

        And for those saying its just a temporary down turn that just is not true. I've been getting told that its a temporary downturn since I started my cadetship in 2009 but when you do some research you can see that the industry has been in steady decline since the 80's.

        For those prospective cadets its up to you whether you take the advice of people who actually work in the industry now or those or work in the offices of these tonnage tax companies or who stopped working at sea long ago.

        Comment


        • Question. How do you know they employ british officers...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Matt247 View Post
            Question. How do you know they employ british officers...
            Ask

            Comment


            • Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              Ok I'm going to say this and I don't care if I get called a naysayer or a troll because this is important.

              DO NOT GO WITH A COMPANY WHICH DOES NOT EMPLOY BRITISH OFFICERS
              Gadget - even those that retain Officers do not guarantee a job to anyone - period.

              Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              Ok so being sponsored by a company which is employing British officers gives you no guarantee of a job when you are qualified. However if a company has a policy of not employing British officers you defiantly will not get a job at the end of it.
              No - you will not get a job with them at the end of your cadetship but recruiters, in general, do not think of any one route of training as any less beneficial than any other and so if they are recruiting there is no bar. There are constraints that are seperate to this, as in having time on offshore, or cruise ships etc. and also things like Dangerous Cargo Endorsements and DP tickets do affect decisions.

              Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              Being trained by British officers will not get you better training necessarily there a very good officers from around the world just as there are less good British ones. What however you will not get sailing with foreign officers are the connections and the reputation that is necessary to get you a job. Just look around at various websites there are no jobs advertised it is all through personal connections and recommendations that people get jobs now a days. You can work your arse off every day for 3 years be the best cadet in the world and have glowing reports from your senior officer but if the companies they work for and the people they have connections with have a policy against employing you because you are British you will never get a job.
              Time for some questions and answers here. Who were you sponsored by? When did you qualify? If you were a tonnage tax cadet and your qualification and words are true then you have a job at sea how did you get a job? How long did you wait between qualifying and getting a job at sea? I'll take a bet that you were with one of the Tonnage Tax Companies, probably SSTG or Clyde Marine. I'll bet that you were with a Company that did not recruit Officers, or perhaps were with Trinity House or one of the other non ship owning sponsors like The Conway Trust or similar?

              Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              If your only offer for a cadetship is with a tonnage tax company who have no interest in you as a trainee and just see you as a tax avoidance scheme the best thing to do is wait, work on your applications and reapply for the next intake. Its far better to be waiting before your cadetship than to be unemployed at the end of it.
              So, let us take one example here. Say you apply to Maersk. Say you do not have 3 decent A levels in Maths and Science. With maybe(?) 1000 applicants - which I think is conservative - they interview 150 and offer cadetships to 50. Unless you are in the top 5% of students you can keep applying to those sorts of Companies for 5 years time and time again and still not get offered a cadetship. My son got a cadetship with Maersk but then he had Maths, Physics and Chemistry at decent grades at A level. Maybe it was a conspiracy he got it - after all I was with Maersk 30 years ago...... total cobblers, he earned his cadetship by working hard, preparing, getting good grades and doing well at interview. When he applied there were something like 2000 applicants.

              So if the choice is to only go with a very restricted list of sponsors and wait 5 years to possibly get a cadetship or go with one now and get your ticket and then look for a job I would choose the latter. At least 3 years down the line you have a ticket - worth no less than anyone else's ticket - after all you sit the same orals and exams with external examiners (MCA) and are there for any jobs that come available.

              Of course I am not saying you would not have a short list of preferred training companies and try fro them first - but if that shortlist fails then you should not rule out anyone else - just go in with your eyes open.....

              I only used Maersk as an example here - not in any way to take a bias.


              Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              And for those saying its just a temporary down turn that just is not true. I've been getting told that its a temporary downturn since I started my cadetship in 2009 but when you do some research you can see that the industry has been in steady decline since the 80's.
              The worldwide downturn started after the crash in 2008 - it was global and has not upturned yet, and may stay that way for a few more years - add to that the oil price crash and you still have a downturn. The industry worldwide is bigger now than it was in the 80's BUT ships are larger, crews are smaller and lots of ships that were tramping and doing General Cargo have been replaced with containerised cargo. We used to spend 10 days in port discharging or loading slung cargo with Derricks on a general cargo ship of 13,500 tonnes - a job done in under an hour today. The new "Bay Boats" - Container ships - were huge in our eyes in the early 80's and yet the one I served on had a capacity of 2058 TEU's! A triple E has capacity for 18,000 TEU's, which would replace 9 ships of my day - think about that in terms of numbers of crew and officers. Let alone the fact we had crews of 36+.

              Originally posted by gadget123 View Post
              For those prospective cadets its up to you whether you take the advice of people who actually work in the industry now or those or work in the offices of these tonnage tax companies or who stopped working at sea long ago.
              And my advice, or theirs, is any less valid than yours? How many cadets have you helped get cadetships? How many articles have you written? How many CV's have you reviewed? How many times have people thanked you for your help? Personally that last comment just shows you to be someone who just wants to pick a fight........... There are many cadets who have been helped by this forum to get cadetships and then jobs as Officers by those that work hard and give advice and help. Do I work for any of these Companies? - No. Do I get paid for this? - No. Do I speak to all of the recruiters every year? - Yes. So is my advice any less valid? - No. How many of the Recruitment Officers at all of the Companies that sponsor cadets have you spoken to this year and how much information did they impart to you? Your view is biased by your experience - good or bad, and by you experience since I believe.

              So - going to answer my questions honestly?

              Ian
              "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
              "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

              "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

              Comment


              • As a newcomer to this industry can anyone list the pure tonnage tax companies? Do you have to have British flagged vessels to benefit from it?

                Comment


                • As a rule of thumb id say anything that isn't a passenger company, a small dredger company, supply, or doesn't have a "household" name behind it.

                  Of course its more complicated then that, im sure a look around the forums would reveal a boatload of peeps that have signed onto tonnage tax companys. Some people are blissfully ignorant that they are not getting a job though.
                  2/O Tankers

                  Watch out for big green boxes...

                  Comment


                  • Well, it is not often one gets a message to help with the recruitment of qualified senior officers but after the last couple of days bun fight I am really pleased to say that I may be in a position to help some more senior members of our Forum..........

                    This is the message that was passed to me.

                    SHORE BASED POSITIONS AVAILABLE IN MIDDLE EAST

                    Shore based positions available in the Middle East region to work with a reputable marine contractor offering excellent tax free remuneration and flexible work rotation for a modern fleet of ASD tugs and other harbour crafts inviting suitable applicants of any nationality.

                    PORT CAPTAIN Responsible for the entire operational management of the harbour vessels and craft including QHSSE and emergency response, previous experience as harbour Pilot and ASD tugs handling is necessary.

                    PORT ENGINEER Responsible for the entire technical management of the harbour vessels and craft including QHSSE and emergency response, previous work experience on WARTSILA marine engines and SRP is necessary. Knowledge of French will be preferred.

                    ELECT/ELECTRONIC ENGINEER Responsible for maintenance/trouble shooting of electrical/electronic components. Experience required with modern marine automation and control systems while shipyard work experience will be preferred.

                    Now I appreciate that this is very much a cadet recruitment site and the number of people who will be looking at this type of role are thin on the ground around here at a senior level, but as this is an organisation that has taken a couple of qualified junior officers lately (who got them jobs? quick hunt them down.....), and someone feels that we may be able to add to the pool of applications, then I feel it is only fair to try and help.

                    Now, if you have the relevant qualifications, and you think that it may be worth a little investigation, then please feel free to drop me a PM and I will give you the email address of the person to send your CV to. I have no further information on the jobs other than you can send a CV and a covering letter to this person.

                    Got to be worth posting it here, surely?

                    Hope this helps someone.

                    Regards

                    Ian
                    "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
                    "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

                    "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

                    Comment


                    • An update from Anglo Eastern:

                      I have had an email from the Cadet Training Officer at Anglo Eastern.

                      They are still looking for cadets across all three disciplines for a Jan/Feb start.............. YES! You did read that right - All three disciplines and all for a January start............

                      Foundation Degree ETO's
                      Foundation Degree & HND Engineer cadets
                      HNC Deck cadets

                      Surely someone is still on the lookout for a January / February start?

                      Now, before anyone starts spouting garbage about the fact that "You should not apply for a cadetship with a Tonnage Tax Company" I want you all to realise that EVERY company that recruits cadets in the UK is a Tonnage Tax Company - with one exception - the RFA. There are also other exceptions, such as the MEF, Conway and Trinity House as they are not shipping companies, but in general they all access the Smart Funding and train cadets as part of their commitment to the Tonnage Tax Scheme. Ironically the MEF is funded by the levy placed on Companies that do not meet their cadet training obligations under the Tonnage Tax Scheme. But those who join MEF, Conway and Trinity know that they only have the cadetship before they start. So long as you go into it with your eyes open then you have no problems....

                      Either way - anyone looking for a place for January - put down the wrapping paper, stop trying to write that card with your best joined up writing and get applying.

                      What are you waiting for - Christmas????????????

                      Ian
                      "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
                      "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

                      "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

                      Comment


                      • Are the vacancies due to lack of suitable candidates or not enough candidates? Anglo eastern are 9ne of the better payers as well

                        Comment


                        • Sometimes it is down to people failing a medical or other requirements that need to be met, sometimes these things are done quite late, or they get another offer that's closer to what they are looking for, or they change their mind about the career.
                          Last year there was one who had a couple of days between an interview and starting think that's the record so far!

                          Comment


                          • There is another consideration as well. The loss rate of cadets is quite high. Many companies have to re-examine the number of cadets in training on a regular basis. Sometimes cadets quit and sometimes a Company takes on a new ship - or even a number of ships. At that point a re-evaluation of the number of cadets in training throws up a shortfall and so they have to recruit quite quickly - If it happens to fall just before an intake deadline then they will try and do it if they can. It means they have a logistical nightmare in terms of finding spaces on courses at colleges, interviews, sorting ENG1's etc. but they would rather do it now than at the next intake.

                            Make the most of it I say. I am not saying their standards slip by any chance - but what I am saying is that you may be good enough for the job and just not competing with anyone who is better qualified or suited. Plus the fact you do not have to wait 3 months to get an offer!

                            As Midge said I helped a particular person a couple of years ago who was told about a vacancy on a Wednesday, he applied, had an interview on the Friday, got the offer of a cadetship on the spot, traveled to the College on the Saturday and started College on the Monday. In the meantime he managed to sort and ENG1 out in there somewhere!

                            Get going I say!

                            Ian
                            "Any damn fool can navigate the world sober. It takes a really good sailor to do it drunk." - Sir Francis Chichester.
                            "Waves are not measured in feet or inches, they are measured in increments of fear." - Buzzy Trent

                            "Careers at Sea" Ambassador - Experience of General Cargo, Combo ships, Tanker, Product Carrier, Gas Carrier, Ro-Ro, Reefer Container, Anchor Handlers.

                            Comment


                            • I find it odd that they are taking on FD ETO's for a January intake. I wasn't aware of any colleges that offer this course for an intake at this time of year. I have been offered a place with a cruise company in the same role for a September intake purely for the reason that most colleges only do September intake.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PuttPutt View Post
                                I find it odd that they are taking on FD ETO's for a January intake. I wasn't aware of any colleges that offer this course for an intake at this time of year. I have been offered a place with a cruise company in the same role for a September intake purely for the reason that most colleges only do September intake.
                                STC are running an ETO course in January 17, they are the only college doing so.

                                Comment

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