Cadet ship competition for Cruise liners

[bluemonkey]

Hello,
long time lurker first time poster,
Firstly let me thank the creator and contributors of this invaluable resource for the information I have gained from trawling the vast number of pages.

I would like to draw on your collective knowledge to help me find my place in this fascinating industry.

I am a aspiring deck cadet, and i am determined to be accepted by a cruise liner. I have some questions to pose to this community in the hope you can help me. Let me thank you in advance for your considerations and input.

I understand that competition for cadet ships with cruise companies is fearsome, however i am unsure how well armed i am for the race,
let me outline my experiences and qualifications.

I have good mostly A/B GSCE's including maths and science,
Good A-level results, A's and C's in economics, chemistry physics and psychology

I am also qualified to Coastal skipper level by the RYA and i have completed their yacht-master theory course.
furthermore I have many complimentary sailing courses such as STCW's, power boat level 2 , RYA radar

I enjoy yacht sailing very much and am a capable navigator with a good working knowledge of collision regulations,
I am familiar with most pleasure craft navigation software, and i am comfortable engaging with emerging I.T technology.

My work experience consists almost exclusively of Hotel work, mostly bar and waiter positions. i have worked in large established chains such as the Hilton and some other lesser known boutique hotels. The established training methods employed by these companies have instilled in me a strong customer service ethic, which i feel will be transferable to the cruise liner industry.

Thank you for sticking with me if you are still reading.

Basically i have some questions regarding the weight of
A) My sailing qualifications
B) My experience in customer service
C) Traditional education

Furthermore I think I may be too late for September 2013 enrollment, but I would love to start this year if possible, opinions?
and if I am too late how do the January enrollments work?

So how do you think I weigh up? does anybody think I stand a fair chance?
I am confident I do but would like to get the opinions of some of you guy's in the industry

Thanks again for reading,
George

[ETwhat?]

I don't really think that customer service is a particularly strong point, while yes they will expect you to be able to be social with passengers its not really the main point or skill of a 3rd officer
I would focus on how many jobs you've had and how long for as staying in one job/company for 5 years is going to be a cruise ship requirement

I wouldn't rate the RYA stuff to highly apart from anything I think people view it as your looking for a fast route to super yachts although at the same time it shows your interested in nav etc

[CharlieDelta]

I don't really think that customer service is a particularly strong point, while yes they will expect you to be able to be social with passengers its not really the main point or skill of a 3rd officer

You'd be surprised. I know for a fact that Carnival put a great weight on customer service experience, as long as everything else falls in to place. It generally shows that you can interact with people well and hopefully have the right attitude towards the people that pay your salary.

[bluemonkey]

Thanks for the responses,
I can appreciate you point on the RYA though honestly, super yachts where never my aim, as I would like to see the chart table more often than the anti foul,

I can only hope they see time at sea using collision regs and dodging tankers as a asset rather than a hindrance. I have at least a taste of life at sea, and am confident of my suitability for this lifestyle, I hope this translates to commitment in their eyes.

Thanks again,
overall how do I stand amongst the crowd? Was there anyone here with similar skills accepted by a cruiseliner?

[EH75]

In my intake of 40 (albeit three years ago) there was very few people with any real sea background. There was a couple but the class certainly wasn't full of yachtmasters. I would imagine your qualifications and experience could only be a good thing. Having said that, competition for cruise cadetships is ridiculous. There was no-one in my intake who got a cruise company. If you can't get cruise for a cadetship then you might want to consider doing it elsewhere in the industry and then moving once you qualify. Its only 3 years. If flies in.

[bluemonkey]

Cheers,
The train and transfer is a option I have considered, would I be right in thinking its easiest to go from cargo to passenger rather than the other way around?
I am going to attend a interview with Anglo eastern soon to get a feel for the interview process if nothing else, as far as I'm aware they only support cargo vessels.
To be honest I would like to stay with a company who sponsors me at least for a while,
What is the typical obligation to your sponsors?

[EH75]

My sponsor don't employ British officers and therefore have not offered me a job. I have only just passed my orals recently and so I am only just starting the job hunt. I think transferring from passenger to cargo and vice versa shouldn't be too difficult once you have qualified. The difficult one is if you want to get into tankers of any kind and haven't got experience on them as a cadet due to the various endorsements needed.

I wouldn't worry about doing your cadetship with a cargo company then getting tied into a two year contract or something once you've qualified. That is pretty rare. A few guys I know have been offered jobs with their sponsoring companies but I don't know of anyone who is legally obligated to take them. There are a couple who IF they take the job have to sign a 2 year contract but they are under no obligation to sign the contract initially. So you still have a choice. Chances are on completion of your cadetship you would be free to leave (or chucked on the scrapheap like me!).

[EH75]

Forgot to mention, obviously I would recommend you try and get a cadetship with a company who actually employ British officers because A) They might offer you a job and B) You are more likely to be trained by officers who have been through the UK system and actually understand it. The officers on my ship didn't really have a clue about it as they were all from the far east. Having said that I still passed my orals first time so its still do-able!

[bluemonkey]

Ok,
So is it common for companies to train but not employ British officer's?
Any particular reasons for this?
Should I worry about being unemployable in comparison to cheaper labour?

[EH75]

Ok,
So is it common for companies to train but not employ British officer's?

Yes. Several of my classmates are in the same position with no prospect of a job from their sponsoring company. There are other people with different companies who probably will get a job though. Its a bit of luck of the draw with your sponsoring company really. Especially if you go through an agency like Clyde where you don't get a massive say over the company they place you with.

Ok,
Any particular reasons for this?

I believe they get a tax break.

Should I worry about being unemployable in comparison to cheaper labour?

I'm not really sure. I have only just started applying for jobs. Ask me in a couple of months. Certainly most of the big cruise lines still have a preference for European Officers I think and a lot of the crew in the North Sea etc and some tanker companies. However a lot of the deep sea cargo lines have crew from countries where people will work for significantly less than us and in worse conditions. That's what happens in a global industry though.

[bluemonkey]

Ok, thanks EH75
Some good information there,
Is the American jobs market more protected in this respect?

Guess I will have to redouble my efforts to join a cruise line.
Still not sure how I measure up to the competition but I guess ill find out,
Thanks again

[RudderNonsense]

I think I read that if you're not an American it's very difficult to work on American ships. My wife is American so it's something I'll probably have to look closer at in the future. Think it's the Jones Act. American jobs for Americans etc not very fair for the rest of us though!

[bluemonkey]

Think I need to keep reading
but the merchant navy is seeming less and less appealing all the time

[RudderNonsense]

Sorry I might have misunderstood you. Big companies like Disney, Royal Caribbean, Princess etc. still favour European deck officers (I think, from what I've read on here). I picked up the thing about American companies and misinterpreted it as I hadn't read the rest of the thread, apologies. I think (and I may be wrong) that the Jones Act only applies to US flagged ships

[gadget123]

Sorry I might have misunderstood you. Big companies like Disney, Royal Caribbean, Princess etc. still favour European deck officers (I think, from what I've read on here). I picked up the thing about American companies and misinterpreted it as I hadn't read the rest of the thread, apologies. I think (and I may be wrong) that the Jones Act only applies to US flagged ships

The Jones act basicely requires that any ship transporting cargo or passengers between one US port and another is US flagged, owned, crewed and built.

This is the reason that all cruise ships sailing from florida will have to call at, at least one foreign port. It is also the reason there are very few US flagged ships.