Women at the Helm - New video from IMO

[YoungMariner]

I think this is a good thing.

I've sailed with many female officers, who have always seemed more diligent and dedicated then us men. When I was a 4th Officer, I sailed with a 1st Officer in particular who I learn't a lot from.

Sadly, many women don't remain at sea, they tend to move ashore once a family comes along. In Asia you seem to very rarely see female officers.

[Dosedmonkey]

"I've sailed with many female officers, who have always seemed more diligent and dedicated then us men."

Thats a generalised statement which I find sexest and offensive.

Many women and men work hard at their jobs, many others make a complete mess of it. Sex is not involved.

[geordie dancer]

"I've sailed with many female officers, who have always seemed more diligent and dedicated then us men."

Thats a generalised statement which I find sexest and offensive.

Many women and men work hard at their jobs, many others make a complete mess of it. Sex is not involved.

Exactly. Women, I'm sure, are as likely to be bad officers as men are. The fact that they have an inny instead of an outy doesn't change anything.

I'd hope more that this film encourages women to become cadets. When the industry's fifty-fifty, we'll be able to disprove sexist arguments. Until then, the biggest problem with the shipping industry is that not enough women apply to be cadets.

[Dosedmonkey]

Exactly. Women, I'm sure, are as likely to be bad officers as men are. The fact that they have an inny instead of an outy doesn't change anything.

I'd hope more that this film encourages women to become cadets. When the industry's fifty-fifty, we'll be able to disprove sexist arguments. Until then, the biggest problem with the shipping industry is that not enough women apply to be cadets.

Sexual equality is a very complicated subject, especailly in places where there is real remoteness, small amounts of people living together. My biggest thought is, when it gets to 50-50%, would it be better to have all women, and all men ships or not? Is it going to be another clash, simialr to when you get some nationalities stuck on a ship together, with un-predictable tensions (Chinese and Japanese crew for example).

I am all for equal opportunities, don't get me wrong. However I understand we are all human, with human, wants, needs and feelings. How is the wife going to feel about my going away for 4 months on a ship with a lot of women, then only spending 2 months with her? I doubt she'd approve of me working on cruiseships again! Haha.

Shall be an interesting future. Intimate Relationships do happen amongst crew, and this does bring new dynamics to the table. It should be fine, as long as those in leadership positions make their role correct.

[geordie dancer]

Sexual equality is a very complicated subject, especailly in places where there is real remoteness, small amounts of people living together. My biggest thought is, when it gets to 50-50%, would it be better to have all women, and all men ships or not? Is it going to be another clash, simialr to when you get some nationalities stuck on a ship together, with un-predictable tensions (Chinese and Japanese crew for example).

Perhaps, but then, shall we segregate everyone? Society is fifty-fifty, I'd hope that shipping should someday reflect that.

I am all for equal opportunities, don't get me wrong. However I understand we are all human, with human, wants, needs and feelings. How is the wife going to feel about my going away for 4 months on a ship with a lot of women, then only spending 2 months with her? I doubt she'd approve of me working on cruiseships again! Haha.

I agree with what you're saying. On the other hand that will be a problem forever? These days, homosexual marriages are legal. So why does your wife's views depend on whether you are on a stag or mixed ship?

Shall be an interesting future. Intimate Relationships do happen amongst crew, and this does bring new dynamics to the table. It should be fine, as long as those in leadership positions make their role correct.

Now that's one thing I completely disagree on. We're supposed to be adults. We should be able to work with women and keep or cocks in our pants. Those in leadership positions shouldn't have to bother.

[Dosedmonkey]

I agree with what you're saying. On the other hand that will be a problem forever? These days, homosexual marriages are legal. So why does your wife's views depend on whether you are on a stag or mixed ship?

I think the evidence is in the bedroom on that one mate, hahaha ;D

Now that's one thing I completely disagree on. We're supposed to be adults. We should be able to work with women and keep or cocks in our pants. Those in leadership positions shouldn't have to bother.

All good and well saying keep cocks in pants, except if you work on a cruiseship or ashore, you know that doesn't happen, and its not just men who encourage it, there is man eaters out there too. Human nature. What I was trying to say, thats not a problem, as long as leadership is tooled and supported by the company to deal with such incidents. Been on a ship where the 2nd mate was dating the 4th engineer, what a disaster that ended out to be when they split up over the pregnancy, awkward ship to work on when was only about 16 people on board!

[Clanky]

The same problems exist ashore, office romances cause problems just as shipboard ones do and no-one suggests men or women only companies.

Yes, I know that the problem is exacerbated by everyone living in such close proximity, but it can be dealt with.

The future Mrs Clanky works in an office with mmen and women and has previously worked on cruise ships, I've never been particularly worried about her.

This is obviously quite a touchy subject,so please keep the replies respectful, I don't want to have to use my new mod superpowers.

[Rootsea]

There is an interesting paper written by the Royal Canadian Navy about integrating women onto submarines - like commercial ships, submarines have a small crew and confined conditions. The RCN and RAN initially tried 'seperate berthing' where the men and women were totally sperated, used different cabins, had different bathrooms and so on. In both navies this caused no end of problems as the crew developed into two camps and there were allegations of sexual harassment.

With the introduction of 'mixed berthing' these problems disappeared almost overnight. Rather than working as opposing teams, male and female crew pulled together as a single team.

I'm sure I saved the paper somewhere on my laptop, when I find it I'll post a link.

[Lewis]

If your wife can't trus you I don't think you can blame the merchant navy.

[YoungMariner]

"I've sailed with many female officers, who have always seemed more diligent and dedicated then us men."

Thats a generalised statement which I find sexest and offensive.

Many women and men work hard at their jobs, many others make a complete mess of it. Sex is not involved.

It's an opinion and relates to my personal experience, hence the first three words of the quoted sentence. How do you find that offensive?

[geordie dancer]

There is an interesting paper written by the Royal Canadian Navy about integrating women onto submarines - like commercial ships, submarines have a small crew and confined conditions. The RCN and RAN initially tried 'seperate berthing' where the men and women were totally sperated, used different cabins, had different bathrooms and so on. In both navies this caused no end of problems as the crew developed into two camps and there were allegations of sexual harassment.

With the introduction of 'mixed berthing' these problems disappeared almost overnight. Rather than working as opposing teams, male and female crew pulled together as a single team.

I'm sure I saved the paper somewhere on my laptop, when I find it I'll post a link.

Submarines are very, very unlike commercial ships. They have much, much larger crews and much, much more confined spaces.

[Rootsea]

Submarines are very, very unlike commercial ships. They have much, much larger crews and much, much more confined spaces.

Obviously there are differences, but integrating women onto subs is much more relevant to this discussion than integrating women into law firms or something.

[Dosedmonkey]

It's an opinion and relates to my personal experience, hence the first three words of the quoted sentence. How do you find that offensive?

Its in your personal experience? If your saying women are more dedicated then all men, as you have not met all men I presume? That can not be your experience. As such it is a generalisation, which happens to be sexest, and obviously a generalisation here is offensive to me, as I feel I am 100% dedicated to my job, and I do not need someone putting me down, because of my sex, equally as a women doesn't!

SIMPLES!

[YoungMariner]

Perhaps you should read the sentence again, I think the way you are interpreting it does not reflect what is written. I'm saying that the women I have sailed with have been more diligent then the men, I've always felt they've tried far harder at their job to achieve the final objective then men, because they have felt the need to prove themselves more.

[Dosedmonkey]

Perhaps, you can read it two ways, one as the men you have sailed with, and perhaps one as a generalisation of all men because of your experiences sailing with terrible men....

Either way, I still find it a sexest pointless point. Everyone is an individual, everyone has different points to prove, everyone should be taken on their individual merits. And thus comments like yours, actually mean some people like me might need to work even harder to make myself stand out!

Anyway, lets not argue over your lack of a grasp on sexism and/or english language.