cadet pay and funding

[chris]

Have just received an email from Nautilus regarding shipping companies plans to cut cadet pay by up to 30% for new entrants to be introduced later in the year. They have an attached survey and the responses will be presented to the shipping minister on 28th March.

https://www.research.net/s/N98R982

I know there is already a thread on cadet funding, but thought this news deserved a new thread. (Forum guys feel free to move it to a different section if required).

From the questions in the survey, they want to reduce pay during the sea phases, to bring the overall pay down by 30%.

This might be why the shipping companies and training agencies are suggesting that new cadets will need a small student loan and why they are reluctant to take on cadets with degrees who might not be entitled to these small student loans.

The full text of the email.

PLAN TO CUT CADET PAY ? GIVE US YOUR VIEWS!

Nautilus has expressed alarm at plans by leading shipping companies to cut cadets? pay rates by almost 30% for all new entrants. The companies say the move ? which would be introduced later this year, but would not affect cadets currently in training -- is being made in response to the UK government?s recent announcement of changes to the Support for Maritime Training (SMarT) scheme.

Nautilus is raising the issues with the shipping minister and is also planning to raise its concerns at the next meeting of the MNTB, on 28 March (next week). To help us in these meetings, we need your views and your experiences. Please let us know what you think by taking five minutes to complete the online survey https://www.research.net/s/N98R982. The survey consists mainly of multiple-choice questions, with some opportunities to tell us what you think in your own words.

As many replies we can receive before the 28th March would be much appreciated; however replies received after this date will still be included. Any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

[GuinnessMan]

Clyde Marine already do this. Your pay drops by about ?60/70 as it is. Probably won't hurt the others to do the same.

[elir71]

This might be why the shipping companies and training agencies are suggesting that new cadets will need a small student loan and why they are reluctant to take on cadets with degrees who might not be entitled to these small student loans.

The potential sponsors could give the option of dropping the cadet training allowance for those people like me who are not in a position to obtain a student loan, but who have over the years gathered some savings and investment income. I also gather that there has been a surge in demand for cadetships, which given the laws of supply and demand would justify a drop in pay to cadets. On the other hand, it could be argued that by funding the courses generously, then it serves to attract high calibre candidates to provide a continuing skill base to the Merchant Navy, which is a strategic goal of Smart funding.

[ETwhat?]

Its only ?55, so not as bad as 70,

one aspect that really wasnt dealt with is the fact that a sea phase doesnt actually mean you spend it all at sea, my view was that the reduction that currently exists (with clyde) is about as much as i would be willing to live with, as any less would make finding a deposit and first months rent etc much harder,

it would be possible to deal withthe short fall another way, reduce the number of students, push pass marks up 10% and make resits self funding that way people who are unsuitable to the job but may drag all thhe way through the college are removed sooner.


p.s. i found the survey to be very poor it is aimed at getting a limited response to support the points that they wish to make, i.e 70% of people said this would happen. rather than actually being aimed to get a view on how cadet pay is used to get you through a cadetship.
the use of pay whilst at sea was particuarly stupid as the options were so limited,

[steamer]

Pass marks are already 65%...which is 15% higher than conventional students, and resits come in at ?65 a pop, about 600 quid to resit bridge sim assessment and over a hundred quid to resit signals-don't think they could do much more than that

[chris]

It must vary between colleges as at STC the pass mark is 40% and the first resit is free

[gadget123]

It must vary between colleges as at STC the pass mark is 40% and the first resit is free

I think it varies between assesments and whether you are deck, engine or electo, based on MCA/STCW requirements.

We were told, if you get 40% in a navigation exam you arre 60% lost!

I think that maybe rather than cutting pay it should be standardised for cadets, seems unfair that some cadets get paid so much more than others.

[Ganner]

I think as it is a competetive job it is completely fair for some companies who want the best applicants to have a more stringent application process and then pay cadets accordingly for being a higher calibre of candidate. The pay will help recruit and also retain the high level people. If you standardise the pay then dont standardise the entry requirements how is that fair? If you are just in this job for the bit of extra pay one company gives you then only apply for those companies.

[Steve]

I think that maybe rather than cutting pay it should be standardised for cadets, seems unfair that some cadets get paid so much more than others.

It is a competitive marketplace in a capitalist economy, not the dole queue in Cuba.

Hence why the government pays the best wages.

[gadget123]

But all this would do is widen the gap between the lowest pay and the highest.
Especially as as some companies pay doesn't cover living expenses at collage and cadets are dependant on student loans anyway.

[Ducki52]

Its not the government's place or policy to dictate on and regulate cadet wages, and heaven forbid it ever should be. Like Steve said, its a capitalist economy and shipping companies/training agencies can pay you pretty much what they want, and if you don't like it, they'll find someone who will.

[gadget123]

I never said it was the governments place to regulate it. But it would be nice to be paid something close to the minimum wage while at sea.

[Ducki52]

I know exactly that feeling, considering I am theoretically on duty 24/7 my hourly pay works out at something like ?2.40 an hour, and it would be nice to be paid something close to minimum wage for that. Its only a few years of low pay and then you're on pop star wages and tax free to boot.

[GuinnessMan]

I never said it was the governments place to regulate it. But it would be nice to be paid something close to the minimum wage while at sea.

You won't get minimum wage because you are not technically employed, you are "sponsored" and it's not a wage either it's a "subsistence payment". Also, the reason as to why it's so low is because of the tax personal allowance threshold. If you get (not earned) more than that per year then you have to pay Tax and NI and it all gets a bit complicated and not worth the effort.

[mak]

I never said it was the governments place to regulate it. But it would be nice to be paid something close to the minimum wage while at sea.

Aye the other side being that you get paid to go to college when you're not at sea. I think I'd rather get paid less and be trained at the same time. Better than the "unpaid internships" that 75% of my graduate friends seem to be doing.