Who is paid more, deck or engine?

[Martyboy]

And when your on 60-70k A year tax free, whats 2k among friends :P

[agibbs98]

you get 4 stripe hair dressers, which is nice for them

Hhahahaha.

Thanks everyone for witty and relatively informative replies

[Randomist]

The responsibility of the Master will be different from company to company. In some companies, his is considered the final rank, where in others it will be the same the Chief Engineer. In one company I worked for, the Master's responsibility stopped at the engine room door. He could piss and moan all he liked, but he could not hire, fire or give orders to any of the Engine Room staff (which was a good thing in that situation).

Maybe, but there are some cases where his authority has to extend to the engine room. For example, the MSA says that only the Master can dismiss crew members from the ship after misconduct.

[Jonny]

I have always heard it as Captain being overall in charge of the ship however the C/E would usually be left responsible for his area as he has far more knowledge than the Captain in that respect.

In some ways they would be looked at as the same rank but the Captain would have the final say if he really disagreed with a C/E decision.

[steamer]

Oooooh Lordy, CE reports to the Master (end of).

Intelligent people woulod therefore assume that the Master gets the most money as he is boss. BTW this is only shipboard-deckies fare very poorly when you consider coming ashore.....as this is whre the clankies make theior money.

At the end of the day who gives a s$$t as we're at the bottom rung of a very steep ladder!!!!

[Dosedmonkey]

Okay, The Chief Officer is in charge of those who work for him in the Deck Department, on many ships the 2nd Engineer is in charge of those who work for him.

The Captain is in charge of the overall operations of the vessel and the welfare of those on board. He is still in the deck department, and must work with the Chief Engineer to ensure the vessel can fulfil its operations. What differs the Captain over the Chief Engineer, is the one line that the Captain has the final word and ultimate responsibility for the vessel. However the Captain can not be responsible for something he is not expected to understand, in fact that is relavent to every person on a vessel.

The Chief Engineer is in charge of technical operations, and ultimately responsible for the technical side of the vessel. But he is also very closely in contact with the company, technical directors and such, in much the same way the Captain is with operational directors ashore.

Obviously someone has to have the final word, otherwise you just need a clash of personalities, and so this man is the Captain.

Pay does vary depending on the company and job, nationality, quite often though, the unlimited ticket C/E is competitive with the Captains pay with most companies currently due to shortage of engineers of 2/E & C/E rank. Of course if you stay with a company you get a loyalty pay raise, which can work out very well over long term (in fact I got an e-mail yesterday saying I'm getting a ?26 per day raise, yay!).

I have experienced Chief Mates who have claimed they are equivilant to the chief engineer, get paid more, or just slate the engineers on the first few days I've joined the ship, they are generally bolshy guys who aren't going to make it to Captain anytime soon.

At the end of the day if all your worried about is pay, you probably should either consider a career on a mundane route with no shore leave, or a job in a brothel. We all need to work together, as a team on a vessel, and rank often doesn't come into it with a good team, its more experience and knowledge of the situation, pick which career route that interests you more!

[Dosedmonkey]

Maybe, but there are some cases where his authority has to extend to the engine room. For example, the MSA says that only the Master can dismiss crew members from the ship after misconduct.

Thats called doing the paperwork as he is in charge of people signing on and off the ship. But if the Chief Engineer says someone in the technical department is fired, they're gone.

[CharlieDelta]

Doesn't dismissal require a hearing before the Master?

[Dosedmonkey]

Depends on the companies ISM, but still thats red tape and paper work, chances are if its that drasticaly bad someone is getting fired, there is real evidence on the table already. In some cases if someone says something unbelievable to the chief engineer, maybe due to mental health problems, or drugs, the chief engineer will ask the person to acompany him to the Captains cabin or the bridge, and just ask him politely to say it again, but that is because you need two witnesses to something like that, and the senoir officers are the best person of course. You got to do something very bad to get fired whilst on board. Most companies just won't extend the persons contract if they are just nath at their job. Other companies don't care if the sailors are nath at their job.

[GuinnessMan]

According to ISM Chapter 5 the Captain has the ultimate authority, it's down to how the company implements it.

When it comes to sacking a person from a ship, that depends entirely on nationality. Eastern Europeans and Indians are generally easy to get rid of. Philipino's are a bloody nightmare to fire because of their CBA (collective bargaining agreement) with the POEA (Philipines Overseas Employment Agency). You've got to have official log entries, witness statements and evidence.

It will always fall down to the circumstances of why they are being fired. If it's because they're useless at their job, you can't really do it. The best that can be done is to politely ask them to **** off and not come back. If it's down to violence or anything of a sexual nature (and I've seen both) then they must have a hearing with the Master where they have a chance to tell their side of the story. Any and all witness statements must be made and official log entries must be recorded. All of this must be sent to the manning agent and the Shoreside management.

When we have had incidents on board, the Captain's have normally asked "can I get rid of him" and we will look at whats gone on and give our opinion. We nearly always agree with the Master (unless he is involved) and we give the go-ahead to sack the folks responsible and black list them from us and the manning agent. If we suspected something was amiss, or that the Master was involved then we stopped the ship and went on board to conduct an investigation ourselves. Luckily, we have only had to do this once and it resulted in the sacking of the Captain, all the deck officers and three deck ratings (Can't go into it for commercial reasons).

Discipline and sacking people is a very touchy subject and one that is a bloody nightmare under the best of circumstances.

[Dosedmonkey]

That is a much more coherent version of what I was trying to say, nice one Guinness!

I've been on a vessel with two people actually fired that I have been aware of, both times it wasn't that much of a nightmare, considering what they had done, one violant, one just an absolute disaster in the engine room, the first was severe, and also took place on a cruiseship, non-officers get fired all the time on cruiseships because they can't afford to have drunks or disturbant people when there is 600+ crew. The 2nd was with a very supportive company so not a problem, they had sorted out for him to have his notice handedto him when they got into port, before port he said he wanted to resign, and some reason the Captain tried to talk him out of it, it would of saved paperwork and the company flight costs, as you have to pay for your own flight if you resign mid contract. God knows what el Captaino was thinking that day?!!

[GuinnessMan]

That is a much more coherent version of what I was trying to say, nice one Guinness!

I've been on a vessel with two people actually fired that I have been aware of, both times it wasn't that much of a nightmare, considering what they had done, one violant, one just an absolute disaster in the engine room, the first was severe, and also took place on a cruiseship, non-officers get fired all the time on cruiseships because they can't afford to have drunks or disturbant people when there is 600+ crew. The 2nd was with a very supportive company so not a problem, they had sorted out for him to have his notice handedto him when they got into port, before port he said he wanted to resign, and some reason the Captain tried to talk him out of it, it would of saved paperwork and the company flight costs, as you have to pay for your own flight if you resign mid contract. God knows what el Captaino was thinking that day?!!

Probably just being nice to the bugger.

Yeah, we've had to sack our fair share of crew. Violence, alcohol or a combination of both and getting rid of Philipino crew is a nightmare, thats if you're registered with POEA as you need all sorts of proof and documentation on the off chance that they sue. God forbid one of them should be injured. They will go and vanish for 6 months and come back and say that because of the injury they sustained on your vessel they can't work and you are required to pay them something like a years wages as compensation.

Most other nationalities it's fairly easy, but we still try to avoid it. It's a pain having to source a new crew member and get them to the vessel, hand-overs rarely work if you're sacking someone, pah....

[Chiefy]

Never had an issue getting rid of anyone since I became chief, only had to sack 2 people in 11 years both for gross incompetance (and general stupidity..though this isnt a sacking offence in it's self!)

Both times I told the company to give the guys a second chance in case it was just me (or the ship) they didnt get on with and both time they got a second chance and to my knowledge both time they blew it. You just cannt help some people

The Captain and the Chief Engineer are seen by most progresive companies now a days as equal, but the Captain id first amongst equals, just cos it's the way the law has evolved over the years and some one has to be responsible, my SMS states that we are BOTH comapny reps and should conduct ourselves accordingly when dealing with outside agencies (survey, vendors, etc).

As for the money a senior chief earns more than a new captain, but assuming both are on equal time (seniority) the differential is about 3-4k and if you are living on your margin that that makes a difference then you may want to seek financial advice about cutting some costs and getting a grip of you finances.

We earn quite a lot, we get a lot of time off, we ROCK

[Dosedmonkey]

Probably just being nice to the bugger.

I personaly would feel it was almost like a sick joke persuading someone not to quit, then a week later telling them that it had already been the case they were fired. But I seriously wouldn't be surprised from knowing the Captain if he just forgot or got confused between people. I'd been working on a vessel for 4 months, went on leave for 2, came back and he tried giving me a full safety tour of the ship claiming I'd probably forgotten its lay out, luckily we suspected such an occurance so the Chief Engineer phoned through 15 minutes into this famous tour that can take hours, saying he needed me urgently, hehe. Don't get me wrong, this guy is an excellent Captain and possibley one ofthe best ship handlers I've seen yet, just a bit eccentric.

[ETwhat?]

I personaly would feel it was almost like a sick joke persuading someone not to quit, then a week later telling them that it had already been the case they were fired. But I seriously wouldn't be surprised from knowing the Captain if he just forgot or got confused between people. I'd been working on a vessel for 4 months, went on leave for 2, came back and he tried giving me a full safety tour of the ship claiming I'd probably forgotten its lay out, luckily we suspected such an occurance so the Chief Engineer phoned through 15 minutes into this famous tour that can take hours, saying he needed me urgently, hehe. Don't get me wrong, this guy is an excellent Captain and possibley one ofthe best ship handlers I've seen yet, just a bit eccentric.

If the Captain had already decided that the guy was getting fired then it would be in his best interests not to resign, but some people have issues with getting fired its that whole ' you cant fire me i quit' idea. but if he didnt know what was comming then that sucks a bit, except your still not out of pocket, and depending on where you are that can be a reasonable hit to take for prides sake.

Saying that i did hand my notice to my boss once, first of all she came out with you cant do this, then she dissappeared into her office and half an hour later came out and said ok you dont have a job from today, so i asked nicely if that meant she was going to pay my notice. The look on her face was a picture till she started screaming at me, at which point the decision was proved to be a good one.